Madeleine McCann: Watching The Parents
MORE no news on the Madeleine McCann case.
It is now a week since the three-year-old girl was snatched from a Portugal holiday resort.
The story has been distressing to watch on our TV screens. What it must like for the parents of Madeleine only a few can know.
BLAME
But their misery is far from complete. With no news of Madeleine, and the Portuguese police having no need to indulge the British tabloids with speculation and theory, Madeleine’s parents are the central characters.
And today’s front-page news, as reported by the caring Mirror, is: “THEY KNOW LEAVING KIDS WAS WRONG.”
Does the Mirror mean to say that Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry, now think they did the wrong thing in nipping out for a bite to eat and leaving the children in the apartment on what they thought was a secure resort?
Does the Mirror mean that the McCanns know that popping back regularly to look at their children and checking on their well being was less than perfect?
Does the Mirror mean that the McCanns realise they should not have left their children alone, just like it is wrong to leave a child in a hotel under the auspices of a baby monitoring service, to leave a child in the car while mum goes to pay for petrol, to talk to a neighbour over a garden fence while the children are indoors?
Of course this is not the Mirror’s view. Oh, no. This is Madeleine’s grandmother, Susan Healy, saying: “They know this was a mistake. But it wasn’t child neglect, it wasn’t not caring for your children.”
That she feels the need to say this is wrong. That the Mirror can lead with Madeleine’s grief-worn parents is pathetic and misguided. That the paper can talk of “people are asking why they didn’t make use of the crèche” at the resort or take the children out to dinner with them is wrong.
But the Mirror has news to write. And the police aren’t playing the game.
THEORIES
So the Mirror produces: “THE 6 THEORIES.”
Only six! Why this cautious approach? But it is all the Mirror has. And readers hear of the “PAEDOPHILE GANG”, the “LONE PAEDOPHILE”, the “JEALOUS MOTHER”, Madeleine wandering off and “DROWNED”, the “OPPORTUNIST PAEDOPHILE”, the “CHILDLESS COUPLE”.
But the Sun has more. It has 130 more. As the front-page headline screams: “MADDIE COPS HUNT 130 BRIT PAEDOS.”
The paper says “at least” 130 British paedophiles “might” have taken Madeleine McCann.
In “ALGARVE IS ‘HAVEN’ FOR PERVS”, readers learn that Portugal is a “magnet for sun-seeking perverts from Britain and the rest of Europe”.
Who knew that perverts get off on watching children at the beach?
Us And Them
But help is on its way. The Sun lists the British coppers who will go out there and see to it that justice is done. We, says the paper, are the only country with a sex offenders’ register.
All convicted perverts must inform the police of their desire to go abroad. At least 130 have. And the police are looking for them.
But – and whisper this – might it be that convicted sexual deviants don’t all tell the police what they plan to do? They are not monitored while overseas. And might it be that not all sexual predators are caught and make it to the list?
Among the policemans’ names is Detective Superintendent Graham Hill, attached to theChild Exploitation and Protection Centre. Hill is on the case. He has flown to Portugal.
Hill worked on the case of Milly Dowler. She was snatched from near Walton railway station, Surrey, in 2002. Her body was found six months later. Her killer or killers have never been caught.
Perhaps Hill’s experiences can help. Perhaps he’ll have more luck. Perhaps not.
Meanwhile, a family is distraught, and bearing up incredibly well under the strain and the merciless gaze of the newspapers…
Posted: 10th, May 2007 | In: Madeleine McCann Comments (2,260) | Follow the Comments on our RSS feed: RSS 2.0 | TrackBack | Permalink
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September 21st, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Star, a timeline for the movements of the McCanns is given here :
forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=336908
As can be seen, there are contradictions which, whilst they vary by only a few minutes, effectively place people at different locations to those they claim to be at.
I’m not sure of the accuracy of this timeline, there may be other versions. But, if this one is accurate, then there are a few questions. For example, Matthew Oldfield is timed arriving at the tapas restaurant between 20.55 and 21.00 (stated by his wife). He then goes to check on the children at 21.00. That means he arrived at the restaurant and immediately went to carry out a check. it doesn’t say which children but why would he do that? Surely he’d sit down and have a drink. Gerry McCann is timed at checking on his children at 21.00. I assume that Matthew Oldfield checked on other children or why would Gerry McCann carry out a his check so soon after Matthew Oldfield’s?
There is a report on Sky news that Gerry McCann says he found a door ajar, thought it strange, but failed to check it out. In this report, he says he found Madeleine asleep at the time & assumed the door was left open by her, having gome to the toilet or for a drink. He goes on to say that he thinks an intruder was in the apartment who left via the window although he admits to having no proof of this. It is this window causing a bedroom door to slam via a gust of wind that, when Kate McCann carries out her check at about 22.00, makes her realise that Madeleine is missing.
The timeline also includes the allegations that the McCanns didn’t call the police for another 40 minutes, preferring to call Sky news & other people. This allegation comes from the Portuguese police. The timeline has Matthew Oldfield arriving after the Paynes and Jane Tanner, when checking her child, not seeing Gerry McCann or Jeremy Wilkins, but she does see a man carrying a bundle. Wilkins doesn’t see her or the man.
A timeline on the News of the World website differs in that it has the McCanns arriving at the restaurant at 21.00 with Gerry McCann almost immediately truning around to carry out his check at 21.05. Again, why would he carry out a check when he has just left the apartment? this timeline directly contradicts Jane Tanner by saying that she says she did meet Gerry McCann but fails to mention Wilkins.
A third timeline, from the Telegraph, has Matthew Oldfield cheking the McCann children at 21.30. Initially he says he only listened at the door, but later says he went in and the aprtment appeared as if the shutters were open. This timeline has Jane Tanner seeing both Gerry McCann and Wilkins.
The contradictions in timings come from the McCann’s friends themselves, and I’m sure there are umpteen various timelines to be found - I just found these three quite quickly.
If Gerry McCann checked at 21.05 and Oldfield at 21.30, with Kate McCann finding Madeleine missing at 22.00, then there would be no check prior to Gerry McCanns as the McCanns arrived at the restaurant between 20.30 and 21.00.
Don’t know if this helps answer your question re the last sighting, Star, or if like me you are still somewhat confused. This period of 20.30 - 21.00 is what the Portuguese police have referred to as the “missing half hour”.
Sorry for this being a bit long-winded.
September 21st, 2007 at 10:06 pm
So when did Gerry tell anyone about this? And the police would already know that Gerry was in the room along with the kidnapper and he didnt bother to check it out, he just went back to drinking? and left his 3 innocent children?
Yep, that makes alot of sense to me.
Actually nothing about this case makes sense. Last interview i watched with Gerry and Kate, they were sayin they still couldnt talk about things.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Star the reson the storys are coming out now is because they are being told by other people so that the McCanns can defend thierselfs,untill now they have not been able to say anything of what they told the police because of the secrecy laws, but as the portuguses have got round those laws by leaks so have the McCanns now.
September 21st, 2007 at 8:01 pm
The cardiologist saw all three of his offspring – Madeleine, and the twins Sean and Amelie – sleeping peacefully at just after 9pm on the night of her disappearance.
***I thought we were told that Madeleine was NOT in her bed the last time Gerry checked? He thought she had gone to the parents bed.
NOW he thought the kidnapper was actually in the room cause the door was not how he left it? What kind of a father is he. Dont you check? Maybe one of the kids was up and looking for the parents?
And is there just another fact that the Mccanns just remembered?
But as he turned to leave the ground floor room, he noticed that a door which he thought he had closed earlier was slightly ajar.
Agonisingly, he is now sure that standing behind this door was his four-year-old daughter’s abductor, waiting to steal her from her bed in the Praia da Luz.
The haunting memory was revealed by a close family friend, who said Mr McCann and his wife Kate, both 39, checked on their children as they ate at a tapas bar 40 yards away.
“Gerry believes there was certainly something odd,” the friend said. “The bedroom door was ajar when he got in and he thought: ‘That’s strange’.
**Do we know the last time the kids were checked BEFORE this check?
Because then Madeleine would of been gone right after nine and we are told that friends and the Mccanns were outside there room at like 9.10
Still dont make sense.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:51 pm
a person…not sure of the date…i was on a link and it linked to that video. I can try and check it out.
I did go to the http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53137
there are alot of things there i had not seen before…interesting
So many questions, and not enough answers
September 21st, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Star what date is that clip from because when i refreshed the page it changed to todays page.
From what i have read it seems that alot of the evidence turned out to be less than reliable and the claim of a full match was a lie it turned out to be a partial match which could have been from the twins thats when the converstion of Nappies came into things.
I havnt seen the cuddle cat in pictures either but this could be because it was a bed time toy maybe, something as a conforter to get her off to sleep or to sit and cuddle while watching tv.
September 21st, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Star, no I couldn’t find a photo of Madeleine with Cuddle Cat. I’m sure of any significance though. If she only had the toy at bedtime or when stressed then those aren’t really the times I’d expect her to be photographed.
I had a look at the link for the floor plan of the apartment, provided by Irritated. there seems to be only one window and the patio doors. Looks like a badly lit place to me. If the people who checked on Madeleine went to the patio door, there is no direct line of sight to see her, only the twins if the door was open and there was a light source. I also found the following link else where, for a floor plan of the apartment :
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53137
There are 2 floor plans on this site. One is the same as that provided by Irritated (entered on the site at 09.44 09.08.07) but the other differs (entered on the site at 10.19 09.09.07.) The first one doesn’t show windows or external doors so I can only assume there is one from the patio and possible one between the bedrooms. The other shows a door between the bedroom & the kitchen, as that provided by Irritated. This also shows a window to the kitchen but none in the other bedroom. If Gerry or whoever thought that Madeleine might have moved into the parents why did he not go in to check, especially if there is no external window to use? There is a third floor plan on that site that also matches
the one provided by Irritated but no one on the site has commented on the discrepancy between the two.
Herein lies one of the problems for us on this and other forums; there a differing versions of things which makes it hard to draw conclusion one way or another. The floor plan that Irritated provided may well be accurate but, as with news sources, who knows what can be believed?
September 21st, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Taken from a different message board….
I woke in the night after a thought hit me like a thunderbolt.
Has anyone seen a picture of Madeleine with Cuddle Cat? I certainly haven’t.
I’ve got tons of pictures of my kids with their motheaten favourites, either holding them or lurking in the background. You can’t get away from them, if a child loves them they are ALWAYS there.
So is CC a carefully chosen prop to tug at the gullible’s heartstrings? Or is it that some thoughts that it was bought for her 4th birthday are correct? In which case some of the speculation that she MAY have been climbing up to get him from the place he was hidden from her and so fell injuring herself fatally could have some basis.
*has anyone seen a pic of Madeleine with cuddle cat?
September 21st, 2007 at 1:55 pm
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,91210-1283507,.html
According to this video, there WAS an exact match in the car and the apartment and a close match in the car(that could be transfer)? They say the other exact match is what they are still looking at?
How reliable is sky news? Not familar with it here.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:21 pm
amazed…How about this new bit that was posted. That when Gerry checked the kids someone was in the room? He didnt seem too concerned about it if he went back to his drinking.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Hmm. Many £££s arising from a film, eh? Just possible, is it, that they might transfer any money from the Madeleine corporate fund to a new charity to find abducted children, and donate whatever they make from a film to a fund to find any abducted child … Madeleine or not. You’d find that really hard to take, some of you.
When are you guys going to get over their dreadful decision to leave the children alone, and realise that it doesn’t actually mean they are guilty of murder, or even had anything whatsoever to do with her fate? When are you going to realise the Portuguese Police apparently have no evidence whatsoever? If they had, the McCanns would be back in Portugal. Thank goodness the presiding (Portuguese) judge seems to be sensible, and not influenced by the media.
So they killed her, did they? Kept her for over a month; and either dumped her body in the sea or got a local Dutch mad bomber to burn her in an incinerator; managed to get her DNA into the Scenic - problem; and are living happily at home in the UK, secure in the knowledge they have fooled everyone. Do me a favour.
If they were guilty, it would have to be on a far less exotic scenario than this. Meantime, I think people are innocent until proved guilty. The only reason you are picking on the McCanns is because there is no other credible suspect. And Murat has also been treated appallingly - and I’d say that, even if he finally proved guilty.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Let them take the lie detector test. That is how the foster father in the case here in the states was found guilty of the death of his foster son.
Someone suggested they could use drugs to pass. Well then have them stay some where before where they are watched. If they are innocent, i believe they would want to be cleared. If they are guilty, i believe they would do anything to get off.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Tommygun…Yes it seems strange that the Mccanns know the exact time someone checked the kids. And now someone was in the room. And he left? He has already told us he went in and Madeleine was not in her bed, and he just thought she moved to the parents bed? Wouldnt you check that?
If they are not involved in some way, i will be shocked. They still sound like neglectful parents. Putting their good time before the safety of their kids over and over again.
Maybe Gerry says this to show doubt, that someone was in there, so this SOMEONE has to be out there some place.
If someone has Madeleine and she is still alive, they can not go out in public, they would have to live locked away. It has happen before. But one would think the person would get tired of that life and just drop her off some place.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:30 pm
irritated….is that a door to the outside off the children’s bedroom? I dont think i would of felt safe having a door that went out where my children slept…just because what if one of the kids went out the door?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Just read that Gerry thought that somebody was in the room when he checked at 9.00pm!!!
All of this talk really is not doing him any favours, think he needs to keep it shut in future!!
I really think he is power hungry, and sits at home thinking why was I not on the front page today?? Then comes up with another story!!
September 21st, 2007 at 11:48 am
A Person, I’ve just read a further report on the man with the incinerator. His past history is horrendous, he planted bombs in Holland. From his comments the Portuguese police appear to be pressuring him in to saying he met the McCanns although he is denying it, and he also says that on the 3rd May he was having an eye operation. The police now seem desperate to find evidence.
I find myself moving slowly towards supporting the McCanns due to the lack of evidence (although there are still DNA results outstanding apparently), the weakness of what evidence they do have, the sheer incompetence of the Portuguese police (not sealing the apartment, not seizing the car for example), the leaks despite their much vaunted secrecy law, and what apears to be an unseemly and unprofessional scramble for evidence together with the smearing of the McCanns. If the McCanns do turn out to be guilty I think the police will struggle to convict because of all that.
The McCanns will not come out of this very well even if they are innocent. Apart from the issue of leaving 3 small children alone, there are the matters of refusing to answer questions, the contradictions in statements etc. Then there is the issue of perception, mud sticks and there will be people who will forever think “they got away with it”.
Brendan, I did an internet search and there are a few reports naming Russell Crowe and Cate Blanchet as being tipped for the roles of Gerry & Kate McCann in a movie. I hope the McCanns have the dignity to refuse to help in any way with a movie. I would refuse to watch such a movie as I wouldn’t want any connection with what I would view as blood money.
September 21st, 2007 at 9:45 am
Hi,
I remember reading here that someone posted something about the Mccanns Saga, I can’t find the post, but I remember it referred that after will come a book, then a movie…. Well ! Congratulations ! You were right ! It seems that this saga has attracted cinema and movie makers, actors are already being chosen to play Gerry and Kate…
Well, can I believe in my eyes and the world I live in ? God! I guess they’ll have to ask permission to the couple, right ? Humm, maybe pay a large amount for the rights of the story, right ?
September 21st, 2007 at 6:01 am
For anyone who is interested how the layout of that appartment looks like, here is a link:
http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/2007/09/21/fall-madeleine/imagemap/imagemap,geo=2533040.html
September 21st, 2007 at 3:50 am
Well, the Portuguese police don’t seem to have much respect for Portugal’s secrecy laws. Perhaps if they try Kate McCann they can try all the leeking policemen alongisde her. And then all the journalists who published the leeks.
September 21st, 2007 at 2:27 am
I forgot to mention…this lil boy’s name was Marcus, his foster mom made a plea for the boy’s safe return after sayin she fell ill and passed out at the park with 4 children, only to wake up and just the lil boy was missing, 2000 people searched for Marcus and money (no where near what madeleine’s fund has) was put up to help find him. His foster dad flunked his lie detector test and they were charged in his death. Bones were found and they had to go by DNA to prove they belonged to Marcus.
September 21st, 2007 at 2:16 am
Well i guess it is not as bad as thinking of her being tossed out with the trash.
Maybe they need to do their investigating and only let the public know when they find out what REALLY happen to Madeleine.
We did have a case here in the states, a foster mom and dad left a 3 yr old autistic boy in a closet, wrapped in a blanket while they went to a family reunion for the weekend. When they came home he had died. Dad took his body and tried to burn it several times and finally did. Then they concocted a cruel lie - that he had wandered off or been abducted during an outing to an Anderson Township park - to explain his absence. His bones were found and
Foster Mother was Sentenced to 54 Years to Life for Child’s Death and Foster dad gets 15 to life.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:25 am
Powder i read that aswell and that the man has said and has continued to say that he has not met the McCanns and that his furnaces were turned off in March due to neighbours complaining.
He also stated that the police were continuosly stating to him that he did know the McCanns maybe this was another way that they were looking into evidence that is not real.
I dont think i would trust a word i read in any paper any more its turned to maddness.
September 20th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Yet another twist! The following is from the Sky News website.
“A criminal who cremates dead animals in a furnace behind his house in Portugal says he has been quizzed about missing toddler Madeleine McCann. Eef Hoos, 61, says detectives repeatedly questioned him about whether he had ever met Madeleine’s parents.”
Seeing as the judge says he has no more questions for the McCanns, I can’t help wondering why this man has been interviewed unless they Portuguese police think this is how Madeleine’s body was disposed of. A horrible thought.
Regarding the sweat. Dried sweat could have rubbed off on to other items in the car boot or the car interior itself. It is easy enough to obtain DNA from dried sweat, all you need is two swabs and some sterile water. It’s a standard forensic technique. DNA will deteriorate with time and the rate of deterioration is affected by location (open to the elements etc) and temperature. DNA recovery techniques are very sensitive these days and with Low Copy Number techniques only 2 or 3 cells are needed.
As for the sniffer dogs, an American judge has criticised their reliability, rightly so in my opinion, as they will react to cadaverine but obviously can’t tell you which body it’s from. I think they’re best use is for intelligence, to suggest potential lines of enquiry. An example of how easily they are distracted happened only two days ago in the town I work in. Tracker dog was called in to catch someone who had run off after crashing a car. The dog set off well, leading officers into woods but within 5 minutes had become hopelessly distracted by an abundance of bunny rabbits.
At the risk of being flippant, if you proposed this, with all the twists & turns, to Steven Spielberg as an idea for a film he’d say it was too far fetched.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
another interesting bit of info…
Mrs McCann could be charged with breaching Portugal’s “secrecy of justice” laws, it was claimed yesterday.
Her alleged offence was to reveal in a newspaper interview one of the questions that police had asked her, about her Bible - they wanted to know why a page containing a passage about David killing his son was crumpled.
Mrs McCann later scoffed at the suggestion that the Bible proved a thing.
She could get a two-year jail term for speaking out, according to a district attorney, Carlos Figueira from Lisbon, who called for her to be charged.
Yesterday Mr Figueira - who is not directly involved in the Madeleine case - said Kate McCann “gave public knowledge of procedural acts - she objectively committed a crime
September 20th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
I think the police have been just watching and waiting the mccans behaviour and then with the small amount of evidence they have and the pressure from the media wanted to see if they would confess.
Now they know that they won’t so they have joined forces with the british police in order to further the investigation and if they have bugged telephones and the car, the search should be easier. Sounds like the Mccans are playing russian roulette (however, I do hope I am wrong, I like most normal people would love to see a happy ending).
September 20th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
I also read that the Mccanns were going to have their own investigation into the DNA? They have had the car hidden away says family members.
I’m really surprised the car was not kept for evidence. I’m sorry but anything that was in that trunk is probably now compromised.
Also didnt the trunk and all the belongings they moved in there stink from storing the garbage?
September 20th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Just read this in the news:
The DNA evidence is still being analysed by experts from the UK’s Forensic Science Service.
Last night a scientist who claims to have spoken to them said they were angry at reports in the Portuguese press.
He said: “The forensic evidence is far from absolute - on a scale of one to ten, it’s more like a two.
“But it has been portrayed as being much more absolute than the FSS are.
“The relationship between the Portuguese authorities and the FSS is not very good as a result.
“They feel their results have been exaggerated to put pressure on the McCanns.
looks like alot of lies have been told over the last 2 weeks
September 20th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
Very odd
September 20th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
I wonder if the police think it’s odd the Mccanns made trips to the dump.
Sounds a bit odd to me
September 20th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
a tip is like a trash dump? If they did go to this place, i hope it has been checked!!