Madeleine McCann: Idle Talk Wastes Police Time
“MADELEINE.” The Express begins in traditional fashion. “WE ARE JUST HOURS FROM THE SOLUTION.”
That “we” is not the Express, which has been leading with no news of Madeleine McCann for weeks. The paper’s front-page headline refers to the Portuguese police.
Yes, the same bundling foreign cops who give the Mail its headline: “We were too busy to tell the McCanns we think Maddie’s dead, say police.”
Alipio Ribeiro, director of the Policia Judiciaria, says his officers have “no idea” what happened to Madeleine McCann. But they are working on the “strong hypothesis” that she could be dead.
One other hypothesis, equally strong, is that she could not be alive. But the police have not swayed either way. And as Ribeiro says of Kate and Gerry McCann: “They are being informed into what happens but this is a very dynamic investigation with many hypotheses and more can still arise. We cannot explain everything to them that we investigate.”
In short, Ribeiro is a professional policeman who will not engage in speculation, least of at a press conference. He does not tell the McCanns their daughter might be dead or that she might be alive or that she might be sat in a Belgian café quaffing strawberry milkshake.
As for being on the verge of cracking the case, as the Express suggests, Ribeiro says: “In the next hours one of the keys of the case will become clear.”
Ribeiro deals in facts. As the Express hears him say: “There has been a lot of speculation, and if I denied everything erroneous that had been published I would have no time for anything else.”
Back To The Parents
But the Express can fill in the gaps and confirm that accusations made against are, in the words of Madeleine McCann’s grandmother Eileen McCann, “ridiculous” and “obscene”.
The McCanns are not under investigation but we are, nonetheless, invited to watch them. They are on the Mirror’s front page. “YOU GIVE US HOPE,” says the headline. Kate and Gerry McCann are sat among a sea of cards and letters, some of the 20,000 messages of support they have received.
Inside, there is a picture of the parents smiling. Says the Mirror: “Every morning Kate and Gerry McCann wake up with hope that maybe this time the new day will release them from their ordeal. Every night they go to sleep with their hopes shattered yet again. Another day with no news of their vanished daughter Madeleine.”
Emotive stuff. But we at least do get news…of the parents. But now news of Madeleine. Not yet…
Posted: 17th, August 2007 | In: Madeleine McCann Comments (67) | Follow the Comments on our RSS feed: RSS 2.0 | TrackBack | Permalink
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August 21st, 2007 at 11:51 am
It is very right for the case to be high-profile so that the investigation continues and people remain very much aware that Madeleine is still missing. Even though the McCanns are warned by the police to take no notice of the supposed sightings of Madeleine (and they have said publicly that they could not take the ups and downs of the emotional roller-coaster if they themselves examined personally every claimed sighting), Kate has made it clear that the “sightings” at least tell them that people are still looking for Madeleine and she finds this encouraging.
It is, in my personal opinion, quite different to to make accusations, whether against Robert Murat, the McCanns or anyone else, in a public forum, the media etc. Mud sticks. I am only saying that I believe there is a balance to be struck between the right to free speech and the right of the individual to have his/her reputation protected. Murat is already in a more difficult position because he was an official suspect. If he is officially cleared soon, it will be even harder for him to recover his good name because of the additional and lurid trial-by-media which he had to undergo. Some journalists went out of their way to try to drag up anything discreditable about him that they could possibly, supposedly, find.
However, I suppose most intelligent people are eventually able to distance themselves from media or message board speculation and, as Kate said recently, when you are dealing with the pain of losing your child, negative comments about you are very trivial distractions.
At the time when Murat was being dragged through the mud I wrote to certain newspapers about the matter in much the same vein as I have posted here. I didn’t know about Anorak then. I can’t remember how I stumbled on Anorak!
As things stand, of course I am in no position to say what anyone should discuss on this board but I do have the right to raise this issue.
Anyway, it’s been interesting “meeting” you all, but SADLY!!! SADLY!!! work duties have to be taken up again tomorrow after my summer break so I’ll bow at at this stage. May look in again occasionally.
I’m sure I join you all in hoping for a happy outcome for Madeleine but I say that with a heavy heart at the moment, for obvious reasons. I guess most of us feel the same way about that.
Thank you all for your comments on this and other threads connected to the case! Best wishes.
August 21st, 2007 at 7:06 am
Is Maria British or American?
August 21st, 2007 at 7:00 am
What is it that people have been saying out of line on the site that I missed?
Maria says Of course the report in 2002 of the high-ranking paedophile ring in Portugal may well be relevant. I was certainly not “offended” by it being mentioned!
Okay Maria so the peadophile ring is okay to discuss.
Maria says could not ever air my views as to what happened on 3rd May in Praia da Luz, with regard to Madeleine, because, like nearly everyone else in the world, I know virtually nothing about the relevant events of that evening, as established facts
Maria you should know by now that the McCanns have admitted they left three children aged three at the time and two two year olds alone asleep in a hotel room. Considering that is not rumor but has been admitted do you feel safe to tell us if you view that as child endagerment?
Maria says I simply have concerns because I know that many of the “facts” which form the very basis of discussion on this board, and other similar ones, are not facts at all but just the result of careless or mischievous reporting on the part of journalists anxious to sell papers for their bosses by feeding the public’s hunger for sensationalism
but then Maria says this too The case is so high-profile (thanks to the McCanns and their family and friends) that it will never really be dropped. The McCanns will see to that.
Am I missing something here?
August 21st, 2007 at 6:14 am
Response to Paul Oh so you aren’t really between the broom closet and the ladies water loo after all. LOL
Maybe we could ask Maria to find out the truth about Anorak.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:49 am
Maria So it is okay to mention the peadophile ring but not this one or that one that was around or what is reported they might have been doing. Well, why you could come on everyday and let us all know what is okay or not to discuss about this case.
Honestly, I have never thought ladies should be lawyers.
August 21st, 2007 at 5:43 am
Response to Maria
Maria I live around four people with law degrees also around many more lawyer types as long as I can remember and NEVER seen any as uptight as you are. What is it?
August 20th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
try the Diana fund ! new charge account at Harvey Nicks for impoverished Anoraks?
August 20th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Anorak sees. It is everywhere.
Give money…
-agw
August 20th, 2007 at 11:09 am
I think that English humour doesn’t always travel very well!
August 20th, 2007 at 10:45 am
Pat - for heaven’s sakes! My comments about Anorak being located over the Express Office in London was a JOKE!
I (wrongly it appears!) thought that anybody reading that post would instantly realise that. I hope you didn’t take any of the rest of it literally!? lol
Oh Gawwddd!!
August 20th, 2007 at 10:33 am
Oh forgot not too many posters on the site these days sound British. Are most of the posters Americans? ????
August 20th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Response to Diana Diana you have a point. The UK police are working on the case too so hopefully they will eventually give an opinon too.
Is there an Anorak in the US also?
August 20th, 2007 at 10:21 am
I swear this is true! Both times after I visited Brian’s site I had dreams. Not either appeared to have anything to do with Madeleine by the way but very strange dreams. The last one was very vivid… The only two dreams I remember having recently were after visiting Brian’s site. I’m not sure I have the nerve to visit again.
Tonight is a late night and I thought possibly there would be news. According to recent reports there should be new news sometime soon. Hopefully so.
Response to Karalynn Judging the decisions of people without knowing the exact circumstances is hard. I think that there were probably many people on holiday at the same complex who did not feel comfortable leaving their children alone. At the same time it is quite possible the McCanns felt safe in their space, a false sense of security as Mrs. McCann’s mother suggested. It is hard to imagine if you are a nervous Nellie type. Feeling unsure of sources, for now, I hesitate to place too much emphasis on the report that the neighbor, Mrs. Fen, heard a child crying in the McCann apartment while alone another night. If that information is true, regardless that I understand the false sense of security, I have a hard time comprehending that the routine continued. Also, there is something spooky about the doors leading into the bedroom, which appears to be out of sight of the Tapas. Another point, the McCanns have been publicly humiliated in many countries for leaving their children unattended, due to their own media campaign. People who are investigated, which some believe the McCanns have avoided, don’t experience that type of public notice. The media, which the McCanns wanted to help find Madeleine, has also been a source of negative exposure regarding the nightly routine. I think you are right that the person who violated the space, the child, and the family needs to be found. The good news is there appears to be many police working on the case.
I just read back over the info and noticed that Anorak is registered in the US? Why is that? I thought Anorak is located above the Express in London?
Hopefully later in the day there will be reports about the new leads.
Mods and Admin
yes Anorak is US registered, mainly because the server which is US has points in its favour for this site. But its essentially English,no, not the Express Offices, this week given the crap weather, its located somewhere warm and sunny whereever we can plug our laptops in…
August 19th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Good Afternoon all my fellow “sleuths” - and thank you to Collette and Maria for your kind words and for your most respected opinions. Maria, no worries on spelling my name wrong - it’s a very unique twist on an age old name - I’m not the least bit offended. I enjoy reading your P.O.V. (point of view) because we approach this investigation from two different angles and two heads are usually (not always of course!) better than one. While Paul suggests you may be an attorney - I have no idea - but you are very intelligent and well spoken and you provide a more tempered/pragmatic approach to a highly emotional and most disturbing set of circumstances - which boils down to “innocence lost”; the rare abduction of a happy go lucky toddler - vacationing w/ her family in a supposedly secure environment and just “snatched” up one night from her slumber w/out a trace of concrete evidence left behind. We (many of us) are so “anguished” (to use the moderator’s word) about this because it is a parent’s worst nitemare - its’ the thing humans and all living creatures fear more than any thing - and that is not being able to protect/save/secure our offspring - the future generation. Think about it - this is intrinsic - if you watch the Discovery Channel or National Geographic or the like - have you seen how hard Mothers (and sometimes Fathers if they stick around in the herd) in the animal kingdom will fight for the survival of their litter/offspring? It’s what is most natural for a parent of any species to do - and when the predator violates those boundaries and enters uninvited into the “home” and steals the crown jewels - i.e. the children - there is no worse violation and invasion on living creatures than that. Think about how much time, hardwork, thought processes and money not to mention most importantly of all, LOVE, went into the efforts of the McCann’s trying to conceive their first child for years who ultimately came to be Madeleine. The 9 mos of pregnancy and the almost 4 years of growing up w/ her. To have tucked her into bed the last nite - only to never see or hear from her again - is just beyond comprehension - to have all that dissipate right before your eyes in one brief moment. Yes, tragedy strikes families every day - and YES - they made a mistake - leaving her in the room w/ two other toddlers unchaperoned was nothing more than STUPID….and yes, Irresponsible - but we’ve got to all move past that red herring and stop being distracted by that. In my heart of hearts, I believe that Gerry or Kate would do their jail time happily if necessary to get their child back. They have offered to give their entire life savings, home everything off their backs to secure her safe return. Money and possessions are irrelevant to them anymore. Because that can always be made over again in one’s lifetime. But our Children, our loved ones, cannot be remade - and that is the harsh reality of it all. The fact that it is DNA that give us clues in unsolved cases and reminds us that each of us, is so equisitely unique, is an amazing discovery unto itself. Thank You for the Brits for that amazing discovery by the way…. Bottomline? we need to realize that ALL Adults have done really dumb/stupid things in their lives at one time or another especially while on vacation when you are relaxed and carefree - and trusting - w/out a worry in the world - because the mood of the whole resort is just that….So you do a dumb thing - leave the kids unattended while they sleep - but MON DIEU! Does that mean they should pay for it for the rest of their LIVES like this living hell?? How many times have people drove drunk after a few cocktails or more - yet get away with it?? MANY - MANY TIMES….trust me! So who are we, as mortal human beings to cast judgment on others who have lapsed judgment while on vacation? Because we got away with it and they did not??! Is that really fair??! You know what I said to myself when I heard what the McCanns did by leaving their kids alone? I said “dumb thing to do buit I’ve done many stupid things too”. Who among us is so pure and innoncent that they’ve never done anything they seriously regret - even if they’ve gotten away with it thus far??! But life is good like that - because if you think you are above everyone else, and wouldn’t do something so stupid or irresponsible etc. etc. life throws you a curve ball, to humble you, to keep fragile egos in check and level the playing field.. Yes Richard, I am an American, but neither me nor my fellow comrades are “holier than thou”. We all eat, sleep and $#@% the same as everybody else in the world - we all have the ties that bind us to the human race. Perhaps when we all become a more empathetic, compassionate society, and help each other rather than sling the mud and judge one another’s flaws - we can maybe save the planet one day afterall.. For now, there is a prime oppty for everyone to work together, and to support one another, including the Mccanns in finding out what happened to Madeleine so that this tragic situation doesn’t turn into another “cold case” like Natalie Holloway vacationing in Aruba - or Jon- Benet Ramsey in her own home and many many others that never get the attention from the Media - but who matter just as much as any one else who is missing or killed. My comment about boycotting Tourism in Portugal - is not an unfair comment at all by the way. How can any Tourism Board not expect this to happen? If the perpetrator or group of perps are not caught and punished for this crime against a child -how can anyone w/ small children vacationing there ever feel safe again? Yes, this can happen anywhere - but the negative cloud hangs over Portugal and threatens Toursim if this is not cleared up ASAP. Aruba’s Tourism was naturally affected negatively from the Natalie Holloway case - and why shouldn’t her family expect that? Even though the local economy suffers - it’s the only way that change for the better can come about. When the local gov’ts of tourist destinations stop protecting and covering up for their own people - and it is the locals involved in most cases - then progress can be made. But if that doesn’t happen - then they end up paying the ultimate price of a downward tourist economy. This theory is something that is taught in nursery school or earlier - and I bet its something that little Madeleine even knows/knew about: it’s called “Playing nicely in the sandbox”. Unfortunately, stealing children, innocent and precious human life, from the security of their family while on holiday/vacation nonetheless - for money or greed or God forbid child abuse/trafficking purposes is CERTAINLY NOT playing nicely in the sandbox. And to quote one of Maria’s points - there can be a lot of good that comes off of these msg boards as she writes: “They are mainly useful for anyone with an interest in analysing human psychology”…. Analyzing human psychology could play a large role and be key to unveiling who is behind Madeleine’s abduction too. I had my own set of “dreams” last nite - actually, more like thoughts/opinions and possible motives or theories behind this case …..and I will share that analysis at a later time. For now, it’s time to take a break! PEACE…..PS: I knew all those Nancy Drew Books that I hid from my Mother as a kid would come to good use one day!
August 19th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Well thank goodness we now have our very own resident lawyer on the site! lol
August 19th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Sorry about incorrect spelling of your name the second time I used it! No offence intended.
August 19th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Hi Karalyn,
Excellently put! Of course I most certainly would rather live in a society which sanctions free speech, even with its nastier side, than one which stifles it. I know very well that the stifling of free speech carries untold dangers to freedoms of all sorts. You are quite right.
Nevertheless, as you would expect, I don’t entirely agree with your thesis that “there is no damage being done by that”, ie by commenting on “documented or undocumented theories”….your words. It is the very fact that once something becomes news it is, as you correctly say, in the public domain and people are free to say what they like, which is the nub of the issue here. It is precisely the extent of that freedom and the limits within which it may be exercised which concerns me.
I could not ever air my views as to what happened on 3rd May in Praia da Luz, with regard to Madeleine, because, like nearly everyone else in the world, I know virtually nothing about the relevant events of that evening, as established facts. That does not mean that I don’t play my own guessing game; most people who have been shocked by the incident will think something or other, even it’s very little more than that they can’t really know!
One hypothesis is that Kate and Gerry are loving parents who felt that their children would be safe in their room provided they were checked on regularly, and that a stranger, having carefully watched their movements throughout the week, took the opportunity to abduct the child for purposes as yet unknown. If this hypothesis is true, broadly speaking, a horrific crime has been commited and the parents must be suffering unimagined grief, regret etc. now. In no way would I ever wish to contribute one iota of further distress to that family, which includes grandparents, uncles aunts etc. here in the UK, by suggesting their involvement at this stage, or even that of their friends.
If that hypothesis is wrong, then there is little lost by not airing as yet unfounded theories about evil intentions or actions on the part of the McCanns and their family or friends. The police will probably unearth the truth, or some aspects of it, in the end. The case is so high-profile (thanks to the McCanns and their family and friends) that it will never really be dropped. The McCanns will see to that. If there is no resolution soon, I believe they will continue to probe for the rest of their lives and ensure that the investigation is continued by anyone, police or other agency who has the means and authority to do that intelligently and, hopefully, effectively. It does not appear to me to be likely that they will ever give up until there is some sort of definitive answer as to what happened to Madeleine. (This is itself a theory of course. It may be wrong but at least it doesn’t damage anyone’s life or reputation, I hope.)
Of course the report in 2002 of the high-ranking paedophile ring in Portugal may well be relevant. I was certainly not “offended” by it being mentioned!
(indeed, if I am actually “offended” by things that are written here, I can take the decision not to visit the board again! Simple! Actually, with regard to unearthing the truth in cases such as that of poor Madeleine, such discussion boards are usually pointless. They are mainly useful for anyone with an interest in analysing human psychology, people’s reactions to disaster, political questions such as free speech, ethical matters such as freedom versus responsibility, the future of the internet, the legal situation with regard to rights and responsibilities, etc. etc. etc. They are also extremely useful for those simply wishing to talk about a case, of course.)
I simply have concerns because I know that many of the “facts” which form the very basis of discussion on this board, and other similar ones, are not facts at all but just the result of careless or mischievous reporting on the part of journalists anxious to sell papers for their bosses by feeding the public’s hunger for sensationalism…….as well, of course, as the public’s desire for a happy ending to this story for Madeleine’s sake and, in most cases, for the parents’ sake as well. Constructing theories on untruths and half-truths seems to be, at best, in poor taste and pointless, and at worst, extremely dangerous.
Law changes all the time. There is a fine line between libel and free speech. If nobody ever questioned the situation as it stands at any one particular time, there would never be change or progress. People were once happy that they lived in an era of freedom to buy and sell slaves and regarded proposed changes in the law as an attack on their freedom. That changed. Maybe some other changes in the law would be no bad thing.
Karolyn, I have no definitive theory here, honestly; I have some concerns, that’s all. I am asking myself, and others, some questions, which, as you so eloquently point out, is my right within free speech to enjoy! BUT……I have damaged no individual’s reputation in the public or semi-public arena by expressing my views.
I appreciate the points you have made so well and I do hope that you are right that something raised on a board such as this may somehow provide the vital key to unlocking this particular appalling secret. Of course I hope that. By the way, I certainly also accept the crucial difference between expressing a view on a board which makes it clear that it is OPINIONS which are being put forward and newspaper reports which are often couched in language which makes it sound as though they are reporting “facts”.
Thanks for your comments!
August 19th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Karalyn,
I have to echo your thoughts almost to the letter on this subject.
I know there are some concerns of ‘libellous’ posting (I guess that means stating as fact something incriminating, whether true or otherwise) as opposed to stating one’s opinion. So I guess although it’s an opinion forum all we need to do to be cautious is state that our post is an opinion. But that might be rather tedious for every single thing we post! In any case most of the time it’s pretty clear people are surmising only - if people KNEW then presumably they’d be on to the police and tell them the answer to the mystery!
Your point about information on msg boards assisting police & undercover investigations in the past has crossed my mind frequently. I wrote a post at one point saying that if the police do in fact hold thick files on all the psychic readings that have been made (apparently this is the case, they just don’t confide it to the general public) - then who’s to say they’re not regularly combing the forums for ideas, possibilities, opinions, anything that might jog memories or point them in a direction they hadn’t thought of before? I know if I were heading an investigation, I would employ a team (call it media monitoring whatever) full time just to handle that aspect of the case.
Bring back Madeleine!
August 19th, 2007 at 5:57 am
With all due respect Maria, I completely disagree with you. This is a msg board and an open forum where the first amendment of our wonderful U.S. Constitution is legally exercised. Furthermore, if you look at that top of the registration section here - it says “Opinion? What do you think!” With the words OPINION and THINK being the key words here. We are not under oath or on trial here - we are concerned citizens of the human race who care deeply about a particular situation - this one being little Madeleine’s disappearance, abduction, kidnapping etc. - fill in the blank as you see fit - and we are entitled to voice our opinions and tell each other - what we think. You do not have to agree w/ a particular individuals thoughts or opinions or the way in which it is presented here - but that is the beauty of living in a free world w/ a free press - we can all voice our opinions on a subject and comment on documented or undocumented theories. There is no damage done by doing that - once something becomes news it is also public domaine and we in the free world can comment on it w/out worrying about being hauled off to prison for expressing our opinions. That being said, I have one other really positive note to share with you - it’s possible - and this has happened many times before - where as information on msg boards has assisted police or undercover investigations. Wouldn’t it amazing if that was the case here? Where this story one day has a happy ending because of information, opinions, ideas that are posted on this or any msg board for that matter aids in the safe return of Madeleine. I strongly urge you to visit many other msg boards out there - also registered in the U.S. - i.e. CourtTV, TMZ, CNN - and see the Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press at work in full throttle. Personally, I think your time would be better spent not playing legal eagle here but rather stating your opinions or thoughts on what in the world happened on the evening of May 3rd - where there are no witnesses and not a trace of this missing 4 yr old - innocently taken from her sound sleep and never heard from since. It’s unfathomable…..in my humble opinion (IMHO) to think that no one knows anything. And if bringing up published newspaper articles from Nov 2002 where a 20 year pedophile ring of high ranking Gov’t officials preying on Orphans in Portugal offends you or concerns you, I think you really need to get your legal perspective right. There is NOTHING illegal about reporting on a msg board what was printed in newspapers across Europe and the U.S. - regardless of how disturbing the facts are - and that’s what you should be most concerned about…how disturbing those facts are - and they are facts. Perhaps you have not seen the articles on this story that everyone is referring to here? If that is the case, then I can see where you might be misinformed. I will say that the Moderators do a good job on this site - and create a fair and balanced public forum. Censorship is only needed in rare cases and I think they have those cases pretty well under control. Peace….
August 19th, 2007 at 1:14 am
Thank you June. I think that clarifies a lot of issues, but I still have concerns.
I am not in the least concerned about posters attacking each other, although, of course, good taste is frequently flouted. If we don’t like it, the answer is obvious! After all, we join this site willingly and as adults, presumably. In any case, posters are anonymous, at least to each other.
I am concerned about attacks on others.
Some people seek publicity, eg. politicians. However, “ordinary” people who have never wished to be in the public eye sometimes find themselves, unwillingly, the object of the world’s attention. The McCanns and their friends and others like Robert Murat are probably current cases in point. When they do so, they are often in situations of severe mental or emotional anguish. How much protection do such people merit?
I’m aware that Anorak is registered in the US; thanks for explaining one of the implications of that. Of course, the problem that worries me, and on which I’m trying to do some research just now, goes well beyond Anorak anyway. It involves other sites also and, indeed, irresponsible journalism in certain newspapers which wantonly destroys lives and reputations simply in order to make money.
Careless, mischievous or deliberately selective reporting, spiteful, unfounded allegations, sensationalist, meaningless headlines, as well as “public” airings, in newspapers or sites, of all sorts of groundless theories concerning the movements, motives, character or supposed guilt or innocence of any number of people, all pour out on a daily basis, with no regard for truth or people’s feelings.
Perhaps even worse, this sort of thing could not only prejudice the possibility of fair trials in the future but makes the current work of the police much more difficult. I’m not in a position to judge the competence or otherwise of any police force in this case but all branches of the media should keep quiet where their careless ravings could, in addition to everything else, impede the police investigation into this tragedy. Individuals speaking in a public forum should also bear in mind the potential effects of some of the things they might say.
August 18th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
By the way, I am fully aware that most people who post on this site are motivated by concern for Madeleine and, often, for her family as well. I am talking about a minority and over a number of weeks during which I have looked at some of the posts relating to the case.
No insult at all intended to the majority of posters! Sorry if my last post sounded a bit that way.
August 18th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
June,
I am extremely interested the legal situation here. People seem to be able to say almost anything on this site (and other similar ones) whether or not in involves incitement to hatred, unfounded accusations of criminal intention or action, all sorts of dangerous and damaging speculation akin to what one might engage in if playing Cluedo or writing a novel. I find this disturbing as this is case is real-life, with terrible suffering being undergone by real human beings. This is not a game or a detective story. Nobody knows the facts.
What are the limits in what can be said or written? Until this particular case I was unaware that such sites existed. I can’t remember now how I even found this site. I have been amazed at what people can write with impunity. Of course I believe in free speech and I think it’s a good idea to have sites where people can exchange views. However, the right to free speech must surely be balanced against the rights of individuals to be protected? As Gerry McCann pointed out early on with regard to Robert Murat, every individual must be presumed innocent until charged and convicted in a court of law.
The problem is that people can be severely damaged by unfounded allegations, even if they are later acknowledged to be untrue. Mud sticks. This is a serious ethical problem, as well as a legal one.
What people say in the privacy of their own home or circle of friends or family, is one thing. What is said in public……..and this site is certainly “public” in that sense…….must surely be very different.
I am unsure as to precisely what the law allows. I am still researching that. However, one may be within the law of the land without being within the laws of humanity and decency.
What do you think June? How do we balance out these factors?
I am just extremely interested in this matter which raises all sorts of questions relating to the internet.
Thank you for your comments.
Mods and Admin
I’ll try to answer your concerns, Maria , as best I can.
First and foremost the roles of Mods and Admin on Anorak are to ensure that each post user name is that of the person who they claim to be. We have had a lot of people posing under different user names, which is ok, as long as they are not fraudulent. Some have been, and even if we haven’t deleted them, there is a record of the perpetrator, so people are safe that way. But two users have been banned for doing this with reckless abandon.
Peoples views and opinions about the whole tragedy of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance, and to date her non- appearance are their own views and concerns. Anorak is not registered here in the UK, but in the US where it is the sole responsibility of the poster to ensure their views remarks and opinions are free from libel. It says on the Front page of Anorak that it is registered in the US. Ignorance of the law never has been an excuse, and users are of adult age , and therefore responsible for their own actions.
We do our utmost to protect people from abusive posters, there has been one spammed and banned this evening who was very ‘pointed’ in his views.
BUT, we are NOT nannies, and it is understood that if people wish to discuss any controversial subject they run the risk of some insults, when these get too beyond the pale , we intervene. But we cannot interrupt the flow of free speech.
We cannot remove posts that state peoples views categorically of either the guilt or innocence of certain parties, people KNOW full well that within the UK people are innocent until proven guilty. We have asked on several occasions that people take care with what they state, and on one users post I personally put the word allegedly, and informed him ,of that, and yet he complained, on the strength of that I removed the word, on his instructions, its all there in the archives.
‘Incitement to hatred’ is shot down by other users, and we do not stop that.
In short , the views posted on here are not necessarily the views of Anorak.
I hope that has answered your concerns
June
August 18th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Paul, for what it’s worth I found the sentence you were referring to in about 30 seconds from your original description. Not quite sure why you wanted it deleted though – very mild compared to some of the stuff I have read.
To my mind this whole “abductor placed Cuddle Cat on a ledge” story is nonsense on stilts. If this was suspected then surely the toy would have been sealed in an evidence bag, only to be returned when the case was closed. No way would it have been given back to Kate to clutch for the next three months.
And even if the Portugese police had not taken it away you can be damn sure the British police would have done and it would now be sitting in a lab in Birmingham.
As far as I can tell this is where the story originated:
http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/2007/08/12/maddy-was-alive-when-taken-98487-19613517/
Lori Campbell?? Hmmm. That name rings a bell…
Mods and Admin
easy enough to find on the front page, but not so easy from ours, we have the entire site in front of us, not just one thread
August 18th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Thanks June and agw - appreciated. Sorry it caused you a lot of trouble to find it.
August 18th, 2007 at 9:26 am
June, it’s on the opinion page headed “Hunting Madeleine McCann And Robert Murat” which was dated 6 August. It is post #10 and was timed “August 6th, 2007 at 10:16 am”. It’s just the final sentence I want deleted if possible please.
Many thanks.
Mods and Admin
The offending sentence is now deleted and was approximately some 3000 posts back.
To EVERYONE
We are asking, yet again, that people take care to not libel anyone in their posts, we have put some ”allegedly’’s in and been brought to task, so we have now stopped pursuing that course. In any event any libellous posts are down to the poster , and are not necessarily the views of Anorak. A moot point also, whether anyone is perceived as innocent or guilty ,even if guilty , you can still be held as libellous under English law.
So, once again, read your posts throughly before pressing the button.
We are not here to do your editting, that is for you to do before you post.
June
August 18th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Response to Orion Well, people from here go to France and live in tents and bathe in the river, so I have heard.
There is a lot of difference between someone robbing from a hotel room and stealing a child, but you never know anymore. Earlier date I read there was nothing material type missing from the McCann apartment, which sort of disputes somewhat? Maybe it is a little curious that only one block of the complex targeted, if true.
Response to Colette I looked at the link So that is how police dress in Portugal? The man has a cross around his neck and his shirt tied at the bottom. I don’t know what’s up there. Okay, so he could be portrayed as a mobster cop with a cross?
I was glad to see Mrs. Sen and that info. Has anyone seen a picture of the McCann party? Early on when I didn’t know what to think but read that Mrs. McCann’s mother said they had a “false sense of security”… well the grandmother was the best PR for the McCanns, very convincing.
August 18th, 2007 at 8:21 am
To agw - I notice that you have removed lisa’s comment as she requested.
I have requested - twice - for a sentence in one of my posts to be deleted, but I have not received any acknowledgment.
See my posts #27 and #13 above.
Thank you.
Mods and Admin
Paul, I scrolled through 159 pages looking for your posts, could you put the time and dates on and I’ll look again. Afew posts back is ok , but did you mean 6th Aug or 8th June? We have a different layout behind the scenes, and about 10k pages
June
August 18th, 2007 at 6:42 am
hi admin - re my comment no.23. could you remove please as it was unintended as it sounds. thanks.
Done…-agw
August 18th, 2007 at 5:02 am
Like most of you I have followed Madeline’s disappearance since May 3rd. Although I distrust the McCanns, I don’t think they killed her, abducted her. It goes without saying that they are obviously responsible for her abduction by leaving her unattended while they went out and partied. A mistake they will regret the rest of their lives. I truly believe she is alive and well. The most obvious explanation is an employee or guest of the Mark Warner Resort has taken her. It had to be someone within the complex that would have blended in and not been noticed. A pervert lurking in the complex. I doubt that. Where is Madeline now? A childless couple spots this beautiful little girl, left alone crying each night, and decides she was the answer to their dreams. Who know what county she could be in now. Has the CCTV from the airport been checked after May 3rd? I bet not. The other thought I have is maybe she was kidnapped by a resort work or relative of one for ransom. With this media explosion, they might think it too risky to do anything right now. Let’s all hope and pray she is living the South of France with some couple that loves her to death, and hate Tapas parties.
August 18th, 2007 at 4:11 am
Colette! Am i more annonymous? More important…
Has anyone explored the fact that there were many robberies in the Mark Warner apts.around that time. The management advised McCanns of this, but they did not want to take advantage of a baby sitting service.Could it be a robbery gone wrong?…..Most important, is there any news on the search for Madeleine.
August 18th, 2007 at 12:23 am
Hi Kath. What you say about cuddlecat makes perfect sense, IF it had been one of the McCanns who found it on the floor. They would know just how important to Madeleine it is, and would have put it within her reach, or tucked it in the bed with her, whatever. However, weren’t all of the group supposedly taking it in turns to check on all the children? If one of the McCanns friends had found cc on the floor, its possible that they might have just picked it up and placed it absent mindedly on the shelf. After all they were just checking that the kids were sound asleep - they would have been in and out pretty quickly, and keen to get on to check the other kids in the other apartments, and to rejoin the party in the tapas bar as quickly as they could.
Anyway, it’s getting pretty late over here on this side of the pond, so I’m going to call it a day now! Hope to talk to you again soon.