Madeleine McCann: The Scenic 17, Dr Denny Says And DNA
MADDY WATCH - Anorak’s at-a-glance guide to press coverage of Madeleine McCann
DAILY EXPRESS page 21: “New DNA tests could unlock the mystery of lost Madeleine”
More DNA tests at the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham And this after the DNA tests proved inconclusive…
“Seventeen human cells could provide a major breakthrough in the Madeleine McCann mystery…The DNA samples are being examined by scientists in Britain and Portuguese detectives believe the evidence could unlock an investigation which is now in its eighth month”
The Tapas 7. The Tapas 9. The Scenic 17…
Guilhermino Encarnacao, head of the Policia Judiciaria in the Algarve, says: “We have asked the laboratory to carry out more tests and exhaust every possibility of obtaining conclusive results”
Says Forensic scientist Dr Ronald Denny (not working on the case): “A cell is negligible – you can just about see it under a microscope. It’s a sample someone would leave behind with the touch of a finger. But when placed with certain biochemicals a small amount of DNA grows to a size that can be analysed”
“GP Kate and heart consultant Gerry” are “both 39”
THE SUN page 15: “Only 17 cells of DNA in hol car”
“Cops looking for Madeleine McCann are banking on ‘a smidgen’ of DNA evidence. Scientists have found just 17 cells on samples taken from a hire car rented by Kate and Gerry McCann and their holiday flat”
Says independent forensic expert Dr Ronald Denny: “It is not a hopeless task. If they have 17 cells then they can carry it off very effectively in Birmingham, one of the leading labs in the world”
DAILY MAIL page 5: “Mission Impossible – Forensic evidence too poor to solve mystery of Madeleine, say police”
But Dr Denny is telling two papers otherwise…
A source tells Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas: “It is highly unlikely they will find a DNA connection…If everybody refuses to make statements, which is perfectly possible, we will be left with our hands tied. This is a case which could hang by a thread for years and we may never be able to prove what actually happened to that child”
But what about Dr Denny. Why don’t they ask Dr Denny?
Says Dr Denny: “A person, or their possessions, have to be present for the cells to come off”
DAILY MIRROR page 7: “Maddy: Smidgen of DNA will work?”
Dr Denny is on the case, or not. But the “independent British expert” does have an opinion which is able to share with all of us
DAILY STAR page 9: “MADDIE: IT’S ALL DOWN TO 17 CELLS”
Dr Denny is talking to Star readers…
“Top cop in blast at private eyes” – Former deputy chief constable of Manchester Police John Stalker says of Metodo 3: “I’m not impressed with these people at all. I’d be very surprised if they get anywhere”
This is the same Stalker who delivered “MY VERDICT” to Express reader back in October
“There’s a world of difference in following a paper chase and finding a flesh-and-blood child”
Or a newspaper chase…
DAILY TELEGRAPH page 11: “Madeleine tests are ‘mission impossible’”
Says a source in 24 Horas: “The samples reportedly include microscopic spots of blood from the Ocean Club apartment where Madeleine went missing and ‘bodily fluids’ and hair from the Renault Scenic hired by the McCanns 25 days after their daughter’s disappearance. The samples are so small that, while it will not be impossible to find a DNA link between the car, apartment and Madeleine, it’s highly unlikely The tests being carried out are extremely complex”
But Dr Denny says…
Says Clarence Mitchell: “Kate and Gerry’s friends have consistently said they are happy to be re-interviewed by police if necessary. Indeed, they are keen to help if it clears up any inconsistencies. They, like Gerry and Kate, have nothing to hide”
THE GUARDIAN and THE INDEPENDENT: “No Madeleine news today
Posted: 4th, December 2007 | In: Broadsheets Comments (1,344) | Follow the Comments on our RSS feed: RSS 2.0 | TrackBack | Permalink
Comments
December 4th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Hey Ferdinand - where have you been… we’ve missed you.
Which entirely innocent explanations?
GM: Russel mate - how’s it going? just had the most phenomenal shit in this remote abandoned barn near sagres (do you remember - near that place where the one-eyed weirdo from Exeter that you know told us to drop the body). It was seriously cool man.
RO: Great - thanks for sharing that with me mate!!! i’ll make sure that I’ll try it next time I’m around. How did you clean yourself afterwards?
GM: Oh, just used that old towel that we found on the back of the Renault when we put the body in the car. Remember?
RO: Great mate - got to go now. Patients are starting to notice i’m not doing any work. Say hello to that hot lips wife of yours and take care.
GM: Cheers mate - I’m off to Morocco now. Get to eat some couscous and seize some photo opportunities next to some moroccan kids. Don’t know what language they speak there but doesn’t matter I’ll just try and look holy in the middle of all those dark skinned kids. Say hello to hot Jane.
RO: Will do bye.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
408 chenier
“Be fair; after all, we know the 9 are really not good at distances….”
and we’re not even sure that it wasn’t 10
December 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
I have an open question to all Anorak posters in here:
Question: Which is worse in a case involving a dead person - 1) premeditation or 2) covering up an accidental death?
Personally I think it’s an interesting point. Murder is an act of killing with premeditation. Disposing of a body after an accidental death is probably seen as less of a crime. But is it? Manslaughter (2nd degree murder) is only different to murder in intent. But why would anyone who didn’t kill someone want to cover up a death - especially a parent?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
402 Ferdinand.
There really isnt any point not considering all possibilities. The innocent explanation, well, ok, lets suppose it is innocent. There, Considered it. Where are we now?
Why would you need to spend any more time on the innocent explanation than that?
Are you saying, dont explore anything but the innocent explanations? Isnt that a bit like the McCanns view that nobody should consider anything except abduction?
How stupid would the police and investigators of the world be if they did that! It would be a criminals utopia!
December 4th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
405
Tinsel Says:
December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
402
Ferdinand Says:
December 4th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
For the phone calls, why does nobody take into account the entirely innocent explanations?
***
If you say you made a call from 4 kms away, but it turns out to be almost 30 kms away–what would be the innocent explanation for that?
—————————————————-
Be fair; after all, we know the 9 are really not good at distances….
December 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
398 stevo
i have a feeling we may see mr amaral with a broad grin too…
December 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
388
Stevo
they would have needed someone to write the letter in good Dutch, so they needed also to involve a Dutch friend in the cover up.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
402
Ferdinand Says:
December 4th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
For the phone calls, why does nobody take into account the entirely innocent explanations?
***
If you say you made a call from 4 kms away, but it turns out to be almost 30 kms away–what would be the innocent explanation for that?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
402
Ferdinand
Easy.
Because as per usual, anything Gerry says has conflicts surrounding it. Why tell the PJ 4km if their records say 25km?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Ade 399 - Sorry not ESpana.
But close enough…and no I’m not METODO 3 (although I reckon I’d do as good a job as they do and for half the money
December 4th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
For the phone calls, why does nobody take into account the entirely innocent explanations?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
393
hannasus
Thanks. Yes, I think that in today’s day and age of the Internet and lively forums like this, we’re seeing a new kind of interactive investigation. Imagine if this had existed when the Ripper was around? I doubt he’d have been as successful.
Did you see my new board game? McCannopoly?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Stevo 392 - I know Sagres and Lagos relatively well from my holidays (don’t know PDL).
One thing that is possibly very important but has not been revealed is when was the infamous phone call made.
Looking at Gerry’s blog one presumes that it was made sometime in the afternoon of the Sunday 10th of June. You should now that (coincidentaly or not) the 10th of June is Portugal’s national holiday and most places will have been closed. It was probably a relatively quiet day also in Sagres, Lagos and around the area.
If you were to transport a body or seek a remote location to dispose of one during the afternoon, the Sunday 10th of June is probably a very good choice.
Maybe these are all coincidences… but maybe not.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
398 stevo
could it be espania (ES is the car initials for spain)?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
394 Salomon ES
The police have got plenty of evidence and I for one can’t wait to see the smiling face on Mr Rebelo when he finally nails the bastards - whoever they may be. And you know what? The two-faced British press will print the stories of how they were duped by calculating people.
By the way…what does ES stand for?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Good grief.
The McCanns may be forced to attend an identity parade, according to the Mail…
December 4th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
#
385
Stevo Says:
December 4th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
381 Tinsel
For reference…the “Elderby” in that article and its translation is wrong. The proper spelling is “Enderby”. Enderby is on the west side of Leicester and a few miles southwest of Rothley.
*************************************************************************
Enderby is site of the headquartersof the Leicestershire police.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
as i have posted before, i reckon it’s the phone records - not the dna - that will nail them
the pj seem to have been playing cat and mouse by leading the comical one down the dna path…
what fun
December 4th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Stevo 389 - Maybe O’Brien was in the UK already.
I remember reading that there were some delays with the telecoms tracking because some of these calls used roaming. In which case - using roaming presumes that O’Brien was back home and this could have been either
a) a reassuring phone call from Gerry to say (found the place or got the body) or
b) it could have been an instructive phone call saying (dropped the body in the agreed place now, get that one-eyed friend of yours from exeter to come and dispose of it).
Who knows what they said???? apparently only the cops know…
allegedly…
December 4th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Stevo,
I think it is a valid theory.
It is in my opinion that when we hear the whole story (if we do) that there is something that all of us have missed.
I am sure that the forums were tapped into and information utilised. If you think about the PJ had an entire task team working free of charge, sourcing information, providing theories etc. I do not say this arrogantly , I just believe that there were some forum and blogs that would not let this case lie down and kept it alive with questions.
When I recall your photographic sessions with Bulldump - not the one’s with Kate with big tits, but that pool shot with Maddie not there, or on the other side.
That was amazing insight that must have led to deeper investigation.
There have been arguments about the ephemeris and what angle the sun is at that time of year etc etc. Information that just kept coming pouring in. Even on the quite news days stuff happened, satire rolled, anger raged, trolls trolled.
The PJ have been able to pull on a collection of thinkers and creatives that have been of the utmost assistance.
So as I thank the PJ, FFS, British Police (you know the one’s I mean) and also you guys.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
391
Salomon ES
You maybe missed my post before but I was asking about O’Brien’s whereabouts around that June 10-14 window. Wasn’t he back in Blighty?
Also check out the terrain north of Sagres on the satellite imagery from Google here:
http://tinyurl.com/2r3r3n
December 4th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Folks - I have now read the original spanish article (Thanks TINSEL 381)…
But unfortunately I’m not any clearer.
The way I would translate the article it suggests that:
Gerry definitively made the call to O’Brien (and not the other way around). And then there is this bit which has not been correctly translated in the other language versions:
“El lugar desde donde se hizo esa llamada y el contenido de la misma son los indicios que faltaban y que la policía quiere explorar en los interrogatorios, que podrían conducir a la rápida localización del cuerpo de Madeleine”.
I would translate this as follows:
“The contents and location of this telephone call are the evidence that WAS missing, and that the police will now want to explore in the upcoming interviews, and that may direct them to a quick location of Madeleine’s body.”
I’m not a native spanish speaker, but the way I read it (”evidence that WAS missing” = no longer missing), the PJs already have the location + contents of the conversation between O’Brien and Gerry, and they want to use the contents of this conversation to get them to confess where the body was dropped.
Any spanish speaker available to comment?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Here’s the route from PDL to Sagres:
http://tinyurl.com/2r3r3n
It’s very isolated just north of Sagres as it’s some kind of national park.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
387
Salomon ES
Sounds like a good theory. But I’m curious….where was O’Brien on June 9-14?
Hadn’t they all gone back to Exeter? What was O’Brien doing in Portugal? Didn’t the T7 all go home on May 4?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
383 hannasus
I have just formed an idea…
Let’s say that June 10 is significant and the barn or a place close to it proves to be the place where Madeleine is buried. A blood stained towel with a connection to the car seems pretty compelling.
Ok…the McCanns would probably know about that paper the Telegraaf because they lived in Amsterdam and have friends there. They may even know about that anonymous letter sent to the paper before when another body was found. Perhaps the anonymous letter about Madeleine was “engineered” to send the Police on a wild goose chase. The anonymous letter said that Madeleine was buried 15km or so in the north east of PDL. Where was Sargres…south west of PDL i.e. the complete opposite direction.
Of course, anything is possible but it’s interesting going over the McCanns movements via Gerry’s blogs. Is he for real or what?
December 4th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Stevo 362 - I don’t know the link with the Telegraaf letter but also find it strange that there is some dispute about the entry of 11 June and when it was writen.
The way I see it:
> On the 9th June they had a nice family holiday in Sagres (beach) - nothing particular.
> On the 10th in the afternoon they drove to Lisbon to catch a flight to Morocco (but on the way stopped in an abandoned barn and made a phone call to O’Brien). Nothing special abotu that.
> When questioned by police about that phone call , Dr McCann says he called O’Brien from a specific place near Praia da Luz (eg Paraiso Café). Police calculate the distance to that place (4Km) but later find out that the call was made from a remote location 25km from PDL. Portuguese cops think something is fishy and it’s not the sardines.
> Police immediately ask telcos to provide the contents of the conversation - in Portugal this requires authorisation by a magistrate. What did they say to O’Brien? “We got the body” or “We dropped the body - get someone to sort it out”? They may have mentioned something along these lines, but naturally did not discuss why/how Madeleine was dead (remember this is the PIECE missing in the PJ’s puzzle).
> When they get this information Police go into the location expecting to find the body, they find a towel that is latter linked to the McCanns car by the FSS analysis.
> Portuguese police ask British cops to examine in more detail the Exeter connection involving Robert Murat. British cops provide a full-file of evidence containing pictures and other witness statements, confirming that Gerry McCann and Robert Murat (and indeed O’Brien) knew each other even before the McCanns landed in Faro airport.
CONCLUSION:
Portuguese cops have all the evidence they need to press charges agains the McCanns, O’Brien and Murat for misleading justice and hiding Madeleine’s body. They miss the key piece of the puzzle that is HOW / WHY Madeleine died in the apartment.
What’s the only possible strategy? To find the body and clarify the cause of death. How to do it? Only one chance - get those involved in the hiding disposal of the body to crack when questionned with the new body of evidence against them.
What are Gerry, Kate and O’Brien doing at this very minute (if not reading anorak)? They’re on the phone with the lawyers!!!!
All of this allegedly.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Guys I don’t think a body will be found.
They seemed pretty sure when they said show the body.
I don’t think they would have left her buried somewhere.
They must be aware of discovery.
I still maintain that no body will be found. It has been completely destroyed. There is no way they would have taken that risk.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
381 Tinsel
For reference…the “Elderby” in that article and its translation is wrong. The proper spelling is “Enderby”. Enderby is on the west side of Leicester and a few miles southwest of Rothley.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
233
addedsugar Says:
December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
This is London 35 minutes ago: McCanns may have to return to Portugal…
i posted the article they took it from this morning, post 39.
also, i think the ‘17 cells’ is a red herring.
the guy seems to be saying it only TAKES 17 cells, not they only HAVE 17 cells.
December 4th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Stevo,
As far as the tip off about where Madeleine could be buried from a Dutch paper was a strange one for me.
At that point I still believed their story/innocence.
I could not understand why they were angry about this however.
I figured I would want to know what had happened - a conclusion is always a relief, especially with a child. But they were angry - and the strange thing was the person who wrote the note or drew the diagram had correctly identified where 2 murdered children could be found.
Do you think all these little details will ever come out?
All the questions we have been asking, will they ever be answered.