Madeleine McCann: The Scenic 17, Dr Denny Says And DNA
MADDY WATCH - Anorak’s at-a-glance guide to press coverage of Madeleine McCann
DAILY EXPRESS page 21: “New DNA tests could unlock the mystery of lost Madeleine”
More DNA tests at the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham And this after the DNA tests proved inconclusive…
“Seventeen human cells could provide a major breakthrough in the Madeleine McCann mystery…The DNA samples are being examined by scientists in Britain and Portuguese detectives believe the evidence could unlock an investigation which is now in its eighth month”
The Tapas 7. The Tapas 9. The Scenic 17…
Guilhermino Encarnacao, head of the Policia Judiciaria in the Algarve, says: “We have asked the laboratory to carry out more tests and exhaust every possibility of obtaining conclusive results”
Says Forensic scientist Dr Ronald Denny (not working on the case): “A cell is negligible – you can just about see it under a microscope. It’s a sample someone would leave behind with the touch of a finger. But when placed with certain biochemicals a small amount of DNA grows to a size that can be analysed”
“GP Kate and heart consultant Gerry” are “both 39”
THE SUN page 15: “Only 17 cells of DNA in hol car”
“Cops looking for Madeleine McCann are banking on ‘a smidgen’ of DNA evidence. Scientists have found just 17 cells on samples taken from a hire car rented by Kate and Gerry McCann and their holiday flat”
Says independent forensic expert Dr Ronald Denny: “It is not a hopeless task. If they have 17 cells then they can carry it off very effectively in Birmingham, one of the leading labs in the world”
DAILY MAIL page 5: “Mission Impossible – Forensic evidence too poor to solve mystery of Madeleine, say police”
But Dr Denny is telling two papers otherwise…
A source tells Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas: “It is highly unlikely they will find a DNA connection…If everybody refuses to make statements, which is perfectly possible, we will be left with our hands tied. This is a case which could hang by a thread for years and we may never be able to prove what actually happened to that child”
But what about Dr Denny. Why don’t they ask Dr Denny?
Says Dr Denny: “A person, or their possessions, have to be present for the cells to come off”
DAILY MIRROR page 7: “Maddy: Smidgen of DNA will work?”
Dr Denny is on the case, or not. But the “independent British expert” does have an opinion which is able to share with all of us
DAILY STAR page 9: “MADDIE: IT’S ALL DOWN TO 17 CELLS”
Dr Denny is talking to Star readers…
“Top cop in blast at private eyes” – Former deputy chief constable of Manchester Police John Stalker says of Metodo 3: “I’m not impressed with these people at all. I’d be very surprised if they get anywhere”
This is the same Stalker who delivered “MY VERDICT” to Express reader back in October
“There’s a world of difference in following a paper chase and finding a flesh-and-blood child”
Or a newspaper chase…
DAILY TELEGRAPH page 11: “Madeleine tests are ‘mission impossible’”
Says a source in 24 Horas: “The samples reportedly include microscopic spots of blood from the Ocean Club apartment where Madeleine went missing and ‘bodily fluids’ and hair from the Renault Scenic hired by the McCanns 25 days after their daughter’s disappearance. The samples are so small that, while it will not be impossible to find a DNA link between the car, apartment and Madeleine, it’s highly unlikely The tests being carried out are extremely complex”
But Dr Denny says…
Says Clarence Mitchell: “Kate and Gerry’s friends have consistently said they are happy to be re-interviewed by police if necessary. Indeed, they are keen to help if it clears up any inconsistencies. They, like Gerry and Kate, have nothing to hide”
THE GUARDIAN and THE INDEPENDENT: “No Madeleine news today
Posted: 4th, December 2007 | In: Broadsheets Comments (1,344) | Follow the Comments on our RSS feed: RSS 2.0 | TrackBack | Permalink
Comments
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December 4th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Maria
Just thought of something…..is Portugal sharky????…cold water …will check it out…
December 4th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
456 Maria
“So, what kind of killing Stevo?”
Answer: none of the above. None of the cases you said seem to be what happened.
I think Madeleine and the twins were a bit too much of a handful for Kate to deal with that day. Gerry had left her on her own. Maybe Kate had left the patio door open and Madeleine being like any other toddler, had wandered out and climbed on the table and chairs and onto that ledge which faces the steps. There’s a safety screen on the ledge facing the road but not on the ledge facing the steps. Next thing you know, Madeleine slips and falls unconscious onto the steps. Possible skull fractures and some blood (PJ said there was blood on the steps).
Kate might have been inside and fallen asleep. Madeleine falling like that may not have let out any sound at all. She may have lain there for a significant time before Kate noticed anything. As a doctor, she’d immediately know if Madeleine was dead or alive and she may have been alive but on the verge of death. If so, she may try reviving her somehow….kind of like a lost cause thing but it may have gone wrong and although it was probably a fait a compleat, Kate perhaps thought that by cleaning everything up the problem would go away. Once Gerry got home who knows? He’s a doctor too and so he may have then switched into a mode where he felt that they’d be charged with murder instead of it being an accident…careers, etc. So, in a short space of time they could have hatched a plan to make it look like she was abducted.
It’s either that or you throw in some controversial elements to juice up the reason to want to cover it up - possible use of sedatives or recreational drugs etc. Anything beyond this kind of accident and you really have little alternative but to start looking at physical violence or premeditation.
Or…abductors.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
As there been any evidence given out as to the bodies kate was supposed to have been near before the hols,there was six wasnt there? that should be easy to prove, six dead bodies in a week,if not why not?
that would not be under portugese secrecy if she could prove that one, it would go a long way to proving she is telling the truth… easy……..
December 4th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
457
Stevo, nutcase? No nutcases in Amsterdam
You’re right and Salomon ES too, when I posted I was catching up the posts and didn’t see (yet) Salomon’s post.
Or a psychic?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Don’t look like the suspects are ever going to be charged with anything,cops got jack shit and they know it.If they had any concrete evidence they would have shaken them down by now,yea they got jack shit,McCanns got all the aces surmising they did anything,which it dont look like,jack shit cops blew it big-time in every way.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
411 December 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Stevo Says:
Question: Which is worse in a case involving a dead person - 1) premeditation or 2) covering up an accidental death?
I think premeditation is worse. It implies a malevolent mind. I’m at a loss to know why it is necessary to cover up an accidental death, as there would be a degree of sympathy over a genuine accident. I suppose there would also be some kind of punishment due, and people might be more interested in preserving their image/career than in accepting the conssequences of the incident. Easier to confess to a Priest than to go to gaol?
December 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
lone pigeon mc cant
if you ever get
the killers
the pigeon detectives
the kaiser chiefs
or mika
let me know
December 4th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
461 Rationalist
My fear exactly. Always has been.
Must go.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
423 Ade Says:
“414 ferdinand
you missed the point
the pj didn’t tell them they were monitoring their phone calls fore quite some time”
Well, but at least if they ask him for a particular call, then he should become cautious.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
446 Ade
The money will all be spent on hopeless attempts to find Madeleine. (I’d do the same if I had money and had lost my child.)The fund has to be open to auditing etc.
Do you think they said,
“We’ll kill/sell Madeleine, set up a fund and live off it handsomely. Brilliant idea!”
or do you think it was more,
“Oh well, someone’s taken her. Blow! But we can set up a fund and live handsomely off it for years.”??
In any case, OTHERS had collected a lot of money before they even thought about it, I suspect. As soon as they knew money had been collected, they drafted in a lawyer quickly to put it on some sort of legal footing. They didn’t start the fund. They were still in blind panic when others did that.
So maybe it was Philomena who abducted the her neice in order to set up a fund…..but….but…but….
December 4th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
449
Totje
Hmmmm…you’re right…of course the Pj would be onto that and all the obvious connections ages ago….
Why does the (alleged) body have to be buried?….The ocean is everywhere nearby….if someone was careful enough…at night…wouldn ‘t be difficult to dispose of a body…don’t even need a boat….a surfboard …for example…would do??!! Paddle out far enough..body with weights…..
Just adding this as a possibility!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
451
Rationalist, re alleged acc in app still can’t find a reason for a coverup.
GM’s career? Why? Blame it all on Kate, it was an accident, soon the whole story would be forgotten. Kate on trial, GM career going on as planned. No problem, whatsoever.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
444,Stevo, just this year he got banged up I think……..there was something strange there though,didnt the top cop who was on the ripper case say thet the tapes they were sent,had info on them that could only be the person responsible ie(the ripper) at one point they reported the ripper could have an accomplice……..strange eh!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
447 - Stevo - Ok, I totally think if they killed her by accident and covered it up, its dispicable.No matter what the circumstances, if it were down to me I would feel the least I could do was give her a decent funeral surrounded by family and friends, not just dump her body or cremate her in some far out disused incinerator. To knowingly take money from innocent people for a fund to find her knowing she will never be found is unforgivable, especially when they have used some of the money for personal expenditure. Im finding it a little hard to think about it all, especially this time of year, for reasons you will understand, and I’m hoping that Kate, if she killed Maddie by accident will fess up. I cant see her coping over xmas holding the guilt inside. But, we are talking about K & G here, and I think knowing how cold they have been so far, Xmas will no doubt be a normal affair, in the ‘lovely’ house.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
About time somebody looked in to how i do my job in here. Let’s face it, I’m no rocket scientist.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
449
Totje
I think Salomon ES’ explanation is best - some nutcase in Amsterdam saw the McCanns on TV there and decided to send a hoax letter.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
411 Stevo
Coffee break.
Exactly! WHY? WHY? WHY?
Not to hide the fact that the children were left alone. That was admitted to from the start.
Here are just a couple of scenarios.
(1) One of them killed Madeleine in temper.
KM is reputedly the calmest of mothers, according to close friends and family. The PJ don’t think it was GM, perhaps because they’ve checked and found he was playing tennis at the most likely time.
It could have been when he got back from tennis, giving them an hour or two to do the deed, panic, concoct the story, dispose of the body (without a car and strangers in the area), clean up obvious evidence, get ready to go out and appear to their friends (and Jeremy Wilkins) as though nothing at all had happened.
Could doctors cover up such an accident to make it look like an innocent accident? Sounds easier to me than disposing of body so well that it wouldn’t be found, hoaxing the world and all the family and friends, convincing tapas friends that all was well……. OR swearing them to secercy……for life…. and then burying the body 25 days after transporting it in a hire car with friends and family around you all the time. Oh…and confessing meanwhile to the local priest. Wonder if they found a translator for that?!
(2) One or two of the tapas friends killed Madeleine either deliberately or by accident.
How? WHY? WHY? WHY?
If GM knows, he would surely not protect his friends on this one? If he doesn’t know, how did the killers prevent GM finding out the truth?
If they did it accidentally, they’d be destroyed and devastated. Would they have been able to keep it from G and K? Would the parents never suspect? They seem to believe JT’s story absolutely.
(3) Some nefarious activity binding the whole group together.
There’s never been any evidence of any such thing apart from some Portuguese journalist who “would lose his source” if he said who told him they were swingers. Yes….well….very credible….not! These smears were repeated on Anorak by people who should know better but I haven’t seen any evidence.
A worse activity even? No evidence.
Ordinarily, if the child had an accident, the parents would carry out immediate first aid and call for an ambulance if necessary. Would they even risk being found out as having covered up a death? They would know that would definitely mean the end of their family life and careers. Better to admit to an accident than commit such a dreadful crime. It’s hard to plan and commit the perfect crime even given a lot of time and thought (I guess….I don’t know!), never mind in a blind panic having killed your child or just seen her die.
(4) Sedation.
The tests they had carried out might well disprove this one. I assume they had the tests done in case they are ever charged and becaue the PJ accused KM of this. If they ever intended using the results if charged, they’d have to be pretty good tests.
Premeditated murder seems unlikely given what all their friends and relatives say about them as parents. No evidence whatsoever for that one.
So, what kind of killing Stevo?
Won’t be here to read answer but will look in very much later.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
413 Solaris Says:
“Hey Ferdinand - where have you been… we’ve missed you.”
How kind.
Which entirely innocent explanations?
“GM: (…dialogue shortened…)
RO: Will do bye.”
You forgot: GM “…and don’t forget the towel!”
But what about the following:
- They must have got all kind of hints, like the one from Holland, some more credible than others.
- One might assume that they pass them to the police, however, as they are hanging around in Portugal, they might decide to check out a location that is mentioned in such a hint - I mean not digging, just checking if the location exists. Thats what we all want them to do after all - looking for Maddie.
So the dialogue on the phone could be:
RO: I’m right here where yesterday’s anonymous letter indicated the body might be found. It’s just as described in the letter - so we should urge the police to take it seriously.
GM: OK, I will do that ASAP.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
All still busy shoveling smoke, i see…….What a sad bunch you are. Madeleine will be delighted such a virtuous, well rounded lot has been fighting her corner….
December 4th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Completely off topic but if anyone wants two tickets for Take That in Manchester on 19/12/07 I’ve got a pair. Good seats too lower tier. They’re pricey but that’s the way it is. £100 each. I can get £300 for them on ebay!
Sorry for the interuption…Carry on…
December 4th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
STEVO I was under the impression that TANNER & O’BRIAN stayed on in PDL for a while longer than the other tapas group , I posted a week or so ago that when the MCCANN’S went to Rome the day after hireing the car,the body was moved then all eye’s on MCCANN’S in rome.IMO alledgedly!!!!!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
432 Ferdinand
edited…
if nobody plays the role of the defendant, or his lawyer, then the game is unrealistic.
**********
Much easier to win though!
December 4th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Hi Totje!!
I’m sleuthing all over the internet on another search engine….haven’t had time to read todays earlier posts….
Salomon seems to be pretty lucid….
Been thinking about (alleged )..accident in apartment…scenario….when????? how????who???
December 4th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
430 Salomon ES
edited…
Doesn’t make sense IMO
********
Right about that. No nutters in Amsterdam, never seen them
December 4th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
427
Stevo Says:
December 4th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
424
Rationalist
I know…but they spent most of the 7th in Amsterdam.
Are you thinking what I’m thinking? That their trip to Amsterdam was only a few days before the anonymous letter arrived at De Telegraaf?
**************
Stevo/Rationalist, that letter had words in it that were used in another “tip” about two belgian girls that were missing. Surely you can’t think that they knew that or were familiar to this letter? And I really can’t imagine someone in it’s right mind, who’s guilty of the disappearance of Madeleine, talking to a dutch vague friend about where they hide the body.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
445 Ian
Assuming the do eventually find a body, I dread to think what forensics are going to say about how she died.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
422 just_me
That’s probably the worst crime imaginable. But I wondered in this case how people viewed a cover up of death - which is what we’re really thinking.
Ok…if Madeleine died by accident and forensics say so….but she was hidden by the parents - would you consider that worse than if they’d killed her in the first place and didn’t try covering it up?
To me, the way they’ve connived and used cunning to lead the PJ on a merry goose chase, is despicable because this isn’t a mafia gangster or drug dealing low-life. This is their daughter…
December 4th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
426 ian
the murder thingie is only part of the picture
if this is the scam that many suspect, then for me it’s the sheer arrogant hypocricy of all those colluders that is wrong and should not go unpunished
i imagine jail would not be a nice experience for someone involved in a child’s fake abduction/raising money scam
mind the soap…
December 4th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
433 They should indeed accept it was their actions which led to Maddie not being with them.
However, I would be much more appalled if it turned out they intended harm to her.
December 4th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
439
Ade
I’m sure they’ll have done forensics on it anyway. Remember how they kept on looking for the Geordie bloke who impersonated the Yorkshire Ripper? He’s behind bars now for wasting police time back in the 70s isn’t he?