Madeleine McCann: The Age Of Jose Anes, Gerry McCann’s Fury And Murat’s Nannies Know Best
MADDYWATCH - Anorak’s at-a-glance guide to press coverage of Madeleine McCann.
THE SUN: “No one will ever stand trial”
Because no one has been charged with any crime?
Or: “NOBODY will EVER stand trial over missing Madeleine McCann because cops made so many vital blunders,” says the Sun. And so too says Jose Anes, 62: “Mistakes in the early hours demolished the entire case”
The ex-director of Lisbon’s police lab is “Portugal’s top forensic expert”, a billing the lab’s current director may dispute
Mr Anes says: “If the scene is not preserved in the first hours, all the hours of effort that follow are useless. I am utterly convinced — unless some new, concrete evidence suddenly emerges — the case will never reach trial”
But what of the evidence gathered so far, like the DNA samples found in the McCanns’ hire car?
“Maddie sniffer dog ‘was rigged’” - Gerry McCann is “FURIOUS” – as often he is. He “believes sniffer dogs used to find Maddie clues in the family’s hire car were MANIPULATED by cops”
Says a “source close to the couple”: “Gerry says a dog went up to the Scenic, sniffed around and went to head off. He watched the dog being brought back to the vehicle. Finally, it reacts around the boot area. Gerry was open-mouthed at that, he feels the dog was manoeuvred into a position where it could react”
And smell
“Murat pals ’saw him near flat’” – “SUSPECT Robert Murat was PALS with British holiday nannies who say they saw him the night Maddie vanished, it has emerged”
Good friends? “And at least two of the girls knew him well enough to be on first name terms”
That’s close, eh
“A source confirmed yesterday that he did befriend several girls, adding: ‘A lot are attractive and he made a beeline for them. When they were asked who was near the apartment that night, several mentioned Murat”
DAILY MAIL: “Madeleine: Forensics expert says inquiry is ‘complete waste’ because of police blunders at apartment”
Says Jose Manuel Anes: “Huge amounts of money were spent but if, in the first hours, the due precautions for the preservation of the crime scene were not taken, all this hard work goes down the drain. We can spend rivers of money which will all go down the drain if the crime scene is not properly isolated”
The McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell says: “It is alarming to hear that Mr Anes has this view. All we want, and have done throughout, is to ensure the operational police side of this has been done in an effective and efficient manner as possible”
And why is Mr Anes – “the 62-year-old” - speaking out now? Because he’s making his comments known in a book called The McCanns’ Guilt – not that the case will ever, come to trial, you understand
“Madeleine: Gerry’s fury at ‘bungling’ dog handlers” – More Gerry McCann fury
DAILY STAR: “MADDIE COPS HIDE WITNESS”
Says the paper: “The key witness in the Madeleine McCann inquiry was in hiding last night after fleeing Portugal” – Jane Tanner? Kate McCann? Gerry McCann? No, the unnamed Portuguese tapas waiter…
“Pals say he is terrified his identity is about to be revealed and claim he is also scared of British and Portuguese government influence in the probe…Friends add that he is worried about the private eyes hired by Gerry and Kate McCann, both 39, to help find their daughter”
One former work colleague of the waiter says: “He does not want to be involved in any of this. Through no fault of his own he finds himself at the heart of this worldwide mystery”
DAILY EXPRESS: “MADELEINE: WITNESS GOES ON THE RUN ‘TO PROTECT HIS EVIDENCE’”
“THE key witness in the missing Madeleine McCann case was in hiding last night after fleeing Portugal”
“POLICE WERE ‘SIDETRACKED’ BY MCCANNS” - Former police crime scene chief Jose Manuel Anes is “ONE of Portugal’s top forensic experts”
The WORLD’S GREATEST NEWSPAPER investigates. Mr Anes is “71”
And “last night hinted that Kate and Gerry McCann were partly to blame for the flawed investigation into their daughter’s disappearance”. Although the Sun says it was those bungling Portuguese police (see above)?
“They should not have been thinking of the poor little parents but I understand the human dimension and the pressure which immediately involved the investigators. Sometimes the police are too human. The police must be absolutely objective. Somebody’s suggestions and complaints connected to a person’s disappearance should be set aside while the evidence is being gathered. In the moments immediately following the occurrence the goal is to gather everything and preserve everything”
Not bungling, rather too caring; too human
DAILY MIRROR: “McCann DNA clue ‘useless’”
Jose Manuel Anes is 62. He is the retired head of Portugal’s police science laboratory.
He tells the Mirror, and everyone else: “I fear the case will never reach trial” - and even if it did, no jury would be able to convict anyone.
BBC: Audience for BBC News 24 peaked in 2007 at 8.2 million in the week ending 1 July for the bomb attack on Glasgow Airport and at 7.9 million for the story of the kidnapping of Madeleine McCann in the week ending 13 May
Madeleine McCann: The ratings winner
Posted: 18th, December 2007 | In: Madeleine McCann Comments (911) | Follow the Comments on our RSS feed: RSS 2.0 | TrackBack | Permalink
Comments
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February 14th, 2008 at 7:30 am
come on ann even i sore the same vidio has you and madeleine was in her own house at the time with her mum and dad . where she lived . she was only 3 at the time. gerry and kate are very good parents to there 2 chrildren sean and amelie . now aged 3 . why would they kill madeleine. explain that one to me ? . if parents go round killing there own daughter sure they would both be in prison now, don’t you think so .from debbie carroll in ireland .
February 14th, 2008 at 7:14 am
hi gerry and kate my name is debbie carroll from ireland , your little daughter madeleine is a lovely girl , and i no in my heart and soul, that she is still alive . because i follow the story every day on the daily express , there is a new hurt for her now from sky t.v. there are new posters out in spain and all around the irlands and halvana . i no madeleine will be found very soon .xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. from debbie carroll .
December 24th, 2007 at 12:37 am
If the Mcanns’s had been unemployed, on benefits from a Council Estate, would Clarence Mitchell have given up a well paid Civil Service job to sing their praises, especially if they couldn’t pay him from a milion pound donated public fund ? The answer Clarence is NO. They left vunerable young infantewwsswqs home alone night after night to go down their local boozer with their mates - did they think they were still at work Doctors? - have someone page them?
This Christmas the McKanns’s and all their co horts should indeed have a quiet one - in prison - out of sight and sound of eveyone in the UK, regardless of background, religion, creed .
Everyone knows that our vunerable young and elderly must always be protected - has been the case since the world began.
I want Clarence Mitchell to explain why his clients Private Detective Agency lied they Knwe where Madeleine is and she’d be home for Christmas. And now hi clients have released a Christmas Vidoe appeal abroad? Tell Kate that all 3 chilcren would have been stolen.
Explain to me why 24 hours after Maddie went misssing Kate McCann;s mother on TV i insisting her daughter and son in law would never neglecte their chidren,Who said they Had?
By the way, it does not matter you creed, believes or religion, no one , no one leaves a thre e year old child in charge of two two year olds, anywhere in the mamal kingdom that we know off.
Maddie and her brother and sister were not hospital in - patients, left behind when worked ceased, put to bed, doped up, even locked in.
They came into this world via the McCann;s, It would have been more plausible if on holiday the Heart Consultant and his Mrs could have behaved like real parents.
December 20th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
903
May Says:
************
**************
Meejician, I have wondered from the onset of the Madeleine saga whether Kate could be autistic, but don’t know enough about the subject to understand if this thought is wildly out of order. It just seemed to me an explanation for her apparently being unable to empathise with the plight of her daughter in a way which would normally be understood by the majority.
I find it difficult to accept the explanation that she had been told not to display emotion in case an abductor got a kick from it. Most parents would be unable to totally disguise how they felt - and not many would be able to sleep well.
****
I agree, the autism angle is interesting and I can’t dismiss the idea ever since I heard it.
K did not have the eyes of someone who cried a lot. Still doesn’t. Eyes get red-rimmed, glazed, change shape, are very distinctive when you cry a lot. Most adults know this.
I also don’t believe she was simply following a directive not to cry. I feel she was and is an amazingly selfish person, who dealt with her own issues in those early days–apart from dealing with the disappearance.
December 20th, 2007 at 5:07 am
908
chenier Says:
906
“Hideki, you have accused me again and again of being paid by the McCanns to support them”
Liar, I have not accused you of being paid for anything.
“you have said again and again that the only people who support the McCanns are paedophiles themselves.”
By now you’ve proven that you are a DAMN liar, for I most certainly never said that only paedophiles support the McCanns.
I said that support for the McCanns (particlularly the view that they should not be prosecuted) is advocacy against enforcement of child neglect laws, which benefits paedophiles.
“The fact that you now find it inconvenient for me to repeat your comments doesn’t alter the fact that you made those comments. ”
You are NOT repeating anything I said. You are LYING about what I said.
I said that support for the McCanns (particlularly the view that they should not be prosecuted) is advocacy against enforcement of child neglect laws, which benefits paedophiles.
“If you stopped accusing other posters of being whores and pimps, and started providing reasoned arguments instead of diatribes, we would all benefit…”
I did not accuse YOU of anything but being a LIAR and a “pretentious word-whore”. That was very accurate, as your new post of pathetic lies proves. Which part of the McCann family do you hail from, Chenier?
December 19th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
906
Hideki Says:
December 19th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Moreover, I did not see you condemning Chenier when she lied about me calling her a “paid paedophile” — I never called anyone a paedophile. Chenier lied about what I wrote many times in that thread, and you said nothing.
————————————————–
Hideki, you have accused me again and again of being paid by the McCanns to support them, notwithstanding the assurances of Mods and Admin on this, and you have said again and again that the only people who support the McCanns are paedophiles themselves.
The fact that you now find it inconvenient for me to repeat your comments doesn’t alter the fact that you made those comments.
If you stopped accusing other posters of being whores and pimps, and started providing reasoned arguments instead of diatribes, we would all benefit…
December 19th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
906 Hideki Says: December 19th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
904 Peter O Says:
Edit…
Upon reflection, perhaps Maria is not a whore. I retract my statement. Maybe she’s just a cleaning lady at the brothel. Her prose sounds too old and stiff for a bed bunny…
+++++++++++++
I’m sorry, I don’t understand your need to be abusive to other posters.
December 19th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
The Daily Lie..again and again.
December 19th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
904
Peter O Says:
“I may not agree with a lot of what Maria posts but I don’t see that this give me any right to be so disrespectful.”
You have not stated exactly what you think is disrespectful about my opinion. Moreover, you deliberately copied this post onto the other thread, out of context. That is a form of “unnecessary” abuse, PeterO.
Moreover, I did not see you condemning Chenier when she lied about me calling her a “paid paedophile” — I never called anyone a paedophile. Chenier lied about what I wrote many times in that thread, and you said nothing. You seem to think that sort of “disrespect” is quite alright.
So why do you now give a shite if I think Maria is compromising her principles and associating with a bunch of McCann whores? You’re the pimp, IMO.
—————————–
Mods and Admin
“It’s not a case of not permissible, but it is unnecessary. We encourage debate, not abuse.”
Upon reflection, perhaps Maria is not a whore. I retract my statement. Maybe she’s just a cleaning lady at the brothel. Her prose sounds too old and stiff for a bed bunny…
December 19th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
902 Hideki Says: December 19th, 2007 at 11:14 am - YESTERDAY
Maria is a Team McCann whore.
891 Murder Says:
Edit…..
Maria is a Team McCann whore.
++++++++++++++++++
Mods and Admin
Is it really permissible to describe fellow posters in the manner above?
I may not agree with a lot of what Maria posts but I don’t see that this give me any right to be so disrespectful.
****************************
Mods and Admin
It’s not a case of not permissible, but it is unnecessary. We encourage debate, not abuse.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:35 am
850
Meejician Says:
December 19th, 2007 at 12:25 am
803
Murder Says:
December 18th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
749
Meejician Says:
December 18th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
626
chenier Says:
December 18th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
There’s enough material in there for several Phds…
************
Well spotted. But the MF produces even better research material…….
______________________________–
So Meej (please correct me if I’m being too familiar - I have trouble with etiquette) is your primary research interest here McCannology or autism?
**************
Are the two mutually exclusive?
**************
Meejician, I have wondered from the onset of the Madeleine saga whether Kate could be autistic, but don’t know enough about the subject to understand if this thought is wildly out of order. It just seemed to me an explanation for her apparently being unable to empathise with the plight of her daughter in a way which would normally be understood by the majority.
I find it difficult to accept the explanation that she had been told not to display emotion in case an abductor got a kick from it. Most parents would be unable to totally disguise how they felt - and not many would be able to sleep well.
December 19th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Maria is a Team McCann whore.
891
Murder Says:
“…I will henceforth feel bound to ‘factor in’ to your [Maria's] arguments some possible contamination of your analyses by what I will crudely characterise as a ‘hidden agenda’.”
Henceforth? You’ve got to be kidding? I assumed Maria was Team McCann after reading one post a long time ago. After that, I skipped most of them, except when the response to them by Bennett, yourself or others was interesting.
Maria is a Team McCann whore.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:35 am
891 Murder
You have absolutely no idea what I think of the Bishop of Rome, either his supposed (by whom?) authority in this world or any particular holder of the office.
If you believe that every Catholic, or person educated as a Catholic, would think for one moment that a Catholic is less likely than anyone else to commit a crime, I am a little taken aback. The prisons are full of nominal Catholics and, no doubt, hold their fair share of practising or reformed ones. (Just ask TB!) The same is probably true of the Portuguese police force. I did read one report in which Amaral underlined his catholicism and the fact that he was a father. I did not allow either fact to distract me from considering the possibility that it might have been true that he had covered up the torture by his colleagues of another woman whose child had disappeared. I do not, and cannot, know whether or not he is guilty of that. I’m in exactly the same position with regard to all three arguidos in the Madeleine McCann case and anyone else suspected (unofficially) of offences related to this case. I cannot know and neither can you, unless you are Murat, K or G or, possibly, one of the tapas friends, in which case you might be sure of your own innocence. Of course, you may be a police officer and have access to evidence which I do not. I know only what the great British press chooses to tell us, hardly a sound basis for judgement!
It didn’t really take a genius to guess how I was educated, did it, though whether by Jesuits, nuns or others, is less easy to discern, my friend. TB could have told you that straight off. Wasn’t Brandon Flours, also? S/he will correct me if I’m wrong.
One thing my teachers taught me is that, outside the tenets of the “faith”, of course, which were to be accepted without too much, if any, intellectual examination, truth is all-important, ESPECIALLY when judging others. In fact, they were quite tiresome about it! Conscience was all. To have a clear one mattered more than anything else!
I can assure you that I have never forgotten that lesson and I hope I never will. It has always served me well.
I find your comparison with an MP’s position quite inapposite. I am not an MP. Unlike an MP, I represent nobody but myself. My idle musings, and they can be nothing more, can have no possible effect on the outcome of this case. I have no influence anywhere and absolutely no financial interest in the matter. I doubt if Aristotle would have failed to note that sort of distinction!
Feel free to enjoy the cathartic experience of going back to Aristotle whenever you like. Quite good at careful analysis, wasn’t he? Especially when it comes to causality if I recall correctly.
By the way, I didn’t see any posts about “reporting to Clarence” but I usually skip huge chunks of posts, in fact, nearly all nowadays, though not usually TB’s as they are usually interesting. I really wouldn’t have a clue how to report to CM, except, possibly, through the official Madeleine site? Wouldn’t know if he gets to see messages? Isn’t the site (badly) run by students of Philomena McCann? I wouldn’t want to report to him anyway. I don’t like him very much, insofar as I can judge from his pronouncements. That may be unfair and it certainly doesn’t mean I think him guilty of a cover-up. My impression, and it can be no more, is that he believes K and G to be innocent of sinister involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance or death.
It would be a cyber-impropriety to ask you any personal questions, so I won’t.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:57 am
COUCH POTATO KRIS
888
Kris Says:
“If I made reference to libel and litigation, it would be because, last night, Hideki threatened me with litigation after I told her I thought she was insane…”
Not true. This is just another in the series of “Lies by Kris”. I made no such threat. I did provide information that suggests someone could easily successfully sue her, if they wanted to.
More importantly, I suggested to Kris that unless she stops eating junk food and downing donuts by the dozen, she will never reduce to a size that makes it even thinkable for her to be a “fence-sitter”. I wonder if she can even fit through the door to get outside anywhere near a fence. Kris makes Philomena look like Twiggy.
BTW Kris, as a journalist, are you proud of your posts? Are you willing to present them to prospective employers, for example, as examples of your acumen and intellect? Just a rhetorical question.
All hypothetical speculation — guesswork based on Kris’s constant reference to donuts, burgers, french fries and potato chips. I’ve never met her.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:39 am
522
Tony Bennett Says:
367 Salomom ES wrote: “My best guess is that Madeleine left PDL dead or alive very shortly after she initially arrived there…”
REPLY by TB:” I cannot agree. There are just too many signs that the abduction hoax was developed in a panic sometime between the night of Wednesday 2 May and the afternoon of Thursday 3 May. If something had happened as early as you say, Salomon ES, they woud have thought up a much better abduction smokescreen than the one they came up with on 3rd May”
I agree with Salomon ES. The signs of panic that I see result from
things going wrong — some unforeseen things, but also some clearly forseeable.
For instance, probably it was much more difficult than anticipated to jemmy the shutter open. O’Donnell specifically mentions the wide open visibility of the McCann apartment on the corner. And this act was not something that could be done earlier. Obviously it is not an act that could be done alone. A lookout would be necessary. So whether Wilkins was a “lookout” or the opposite (someone spotted, OR MISSED, by a lookout), I think Gerry realized that forcing the shutter was too difficult and risky. I’d like to see an actual analysis of how much force it would take to jemmy open such a shutter, what the noise would be, etc.
Despite Gerry’s failure to jemmy the shutter, he did not notify the others of a change, and they all wound up reporting that the shutter was jemmied.
Of course, I suspect a poor plan was deliberately foisted on the McCanns. Possibly the planner knew there would be a problem with the shutter, but had told Gerry it would be easy.
The utter lack of photos is very strong evidence that Madeleine was gone long before the 3rd. And I think police suspicions have been confirmed by , for example, showing nannies pictures of Ella (or whoever) and having them identify her as “Madeleine”. The McCanns were certainly aware of how suspicious their mere 2 (dubious) photos would appear, and yet they produced no other holiday shots of Madeleine. Unless one wants to leap to the weird belief that someone is TRYING to instill doubt about the date by with-holding photos, this makes no sense at all — unless the girl simply was not present.
If she had died on May 3rd or the night before, and no intact safe plan was ready, what was to stop them from delaying it? I think that already a very large amount of thought went into the plan, and there is a reason it contains all kinds of pitfalls.
That is , the plan was never intended to leave Kate and Gerry unscathed, but only to (nearly) guarantee they would not be charged with intentional murder. They DID succeed with this, for it was reported that police wanted to charge them with this, but could not. Probably all of the talk about INCONCLUSIVE, USELESS, etc refers only to the police inability to prove what they think — that Madeleine was murdered deliberately.
The plan DOES leave Kate and Gerry COMPLETELY DEPENDENT on “Team McCann” to avoid jail, or get a minimum sentence, retain professional prospects (perhaps only one of them no longer a doctor), etc etc. Perhaps that was the trade-off for them — had they not received an enormous amount of help, one of them may already have been charged with murder.
And, the key question, how are the McCanns going to return this favor?
All hypothetical speculation.
December 19th, 2007 at 6:11 am
Hideki,
I had been thinking the same thing.
We have all been stuck on the child crying for her father and assumed that implied Madeleine was still around. It could well have been either of the twins. A two year old boy and girl are not to be differentiated through voice.
What is your current take on the situation?
I have at the moment a household of 13, which will continue for 10 days at which point it will drop back to the standard 7.
Hardly get any time to come and check but what I get through quick scrolling is that ………
what is your take?
December 19th, 2007 at 6:04 am
515
Tony Bennett Says:
378 Salomon ES
“Both theories are ruled out if Mrs Pamela Fenn is right in having heard Madeleine sobbing ‘Daddy’, ‘Daddy’ on the evening of Tuesday 1 May between 10.30pm and 11.45pm”
Did she specifically say that she recognized Madeleine’s voice? How did she know it was not one of the twins? (the McCanns later told her it was Madeleine and she accepted that?)
December 19th, 2007 at 5:39 am
Speaking of photos, and manipulation thereof, does anyone notice that in all the photos of Kate and Gerry lately, they seem in intent conversation with each other– nevermind the twins? I don’t think I’ve seen a photo where Kate is actu ally LOOKING at her children.
Going now. I s hall report back to the PJ and collect my cash.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:32 am
Murder, goodness, I’m not even sure if you are male or female, but you are the sexiest thing on Anorak.
December 19th, 2007 at 5:27 am
875- Cheryl– This is PRECISELY where about 75 percent of the “facts” (both pro and anti) come from on this forum. The McCanns scoured with bleach. Gerry played tennis on may 4. Gerry got his haircut May 4. Etc.
And now, I shall report back to Clarence and collect my cash….
December 19th, 2007 at 5:23 am
Rather unfortunate phrasing for Madeleines aunt Philomena in the Daily Mail
Referring to christmasses past
“It was hilarious. Fiona, who’s Johnny’s daughter, is 11 now, she’d look after the little ones. ”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=503303&in_page_id=1770
December 19th, 2007 at 4:40 am
362
Tony Bennett Says:
December 18th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
358 - Cheryl says: “In my eyes it has been nothing short of garbage most of what has been spewing forth from yours [Ian’s] and some others’ mouths on here with their outlandish theories, speculations, deliberate smearing of the McCanns’ reputation…everyone is entitled to show their true character…”
REPLY: And thank you for revealing something about yours
______________
TB, I’ll take your remark as a compliment. I haven’t been ’sucked in’ to prejudge the McCanns and I am waiting to hear the true Facts based on solid evidence to be announced by the Investigators. You, of all people, know that one is considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:10 am
Dear Maria - it doesn’t really matter much to me who you do or don’t know, but the strange exchanges last night - most particularly ‘Jane’s’ apparent ‘anagnorisis’ (forgive me for going back to Aristotle) suggested to me that the frequent quips from various other posters about ‘reporting to Clarence’ might not be quite so, well, ludicrous, as I’d always, perhaps rather naively, assumed.
The idea that your own ever-repeated insistence on your inability to believe that anything but ‘abduction by a person or persons unknown’ could possibly ‘work’ psychologically (in terms of the perceived characters, and possible motivations, of the protagonists) was perhaps influenced by some covert loyalty, arose - as quite a shock - for the first time, as I tried last night to read between the lines of your odd exchange with ‘Meejician’.
You still haven’t answered last night’s question - which when TB repeated it to you today, you rejected as improper. I don’t understand why you should now, having refused to answer that question, answer a question that nobody has asked.
I guess, perhaps wrongly - but most of the people here most of the time, like most of us in ‘RL’, operate onl;y with probabilities rather than certainties - that you were educated by nuns rather than Jesuits. But you’d make quite a good Jesuit, with your careful preselection of material and questions for ‘objective’ detached argumentation.
There is no compulsion, of course, to answer now the question you refused earlier today, but like TB, I don’t actually see why it’s an improper question. After all, MPs, say, contributing to a debate, are compelled to inform their audience of any ‘interests’ that could influence their position. And a connection to a major oil company compromises to some extent, for example, the objectivity of scientists arguing there is no such thing as anthropogenic climate change.
My question to ‘Jane’ was essentially rhetorical, since her connection to ‘Team McCann’ was strongly implied by her final post yesterday. My question (the same question) to you went much deeper, because I had always (perhaps correctly) assumed that your allegiance to the McCann parents was based simply on a common allegiance, however nominal in their case, to the Bishop of Rome, or to what you understand to be the source of his supreme earthly authority.
I will continue to respect your clearly heartfelt arguments against anything other than ‘an inappropriate childcare decision’ by Madeleine’s parents. As I’ve said on several occasions, I think you eloquently present the best possible arguments - from the psychological verisimilutude, or lack of it, of any scenario other than stranger abduction - for the parents’ essential innocence. But for however little it’s worth, until I hear an explicit rejection of any direct connection to ‘Team McCann (which, from you, I would take at exactly face value), I will henceforth feel bound to ‘factor in’ to your arguments some possible contamination of your analyses by what I will crudely characterise as a ‘hidden agenda’.
December 19th, 2007 at 4:07 am
697
Stevo Says:
December 18th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
694 Willo
We both must be psychic then! Actually, I’m more psychic than you - I’ll say Arsenal will win the league AND the Rams will get relegated! Care to stick your psychic powers on the table and come up with other predictions?
Yep. all of the above plus the league cup, Arsenal ladies to do the triple and Cesc to get player of the year.
Oh yeah and Man utd to get relegated.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:51 am
841- Ian- Unfortunately I agree with you , too. That video of Gerry driving where he suggests the twins were sedated was actually the turning point for me, in terms of what I believe happened in Portugal that night.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:49 am
797/808-Remigius, Anne… Who Me???? I never threatened anyone with litigation! (REMIGIUS, please). I would never. I’m not the litigious type and believe whole-heartedly in completely free speech. Heck, I even support the right to engage in the so-called “hate speech” Americans are up in arms about at the moment (trying to make “Hate Speech” illegal).
If I made reference to libel and litigation, it would be because, last night, Hideki threatened me with litigation after I told her I thought she was insane and was posting stupidities. Hideki is, so far as I can tell, either Stevo’s doppelganger or his wife, I”m not sure which.
And, Remigius, I am deeply offended — outraged! I might sue! — over the allegation that I am a “pro-mccannite.” In truth, I am a Fence Sitter. If forced to say what I believe happened , I’d definitely say I think the McCanns were (probably and allegedly) involved in her death and/or abduction. However, once we start getting into the truly bizarre territory (like, say, Madeleine was already dead in England and came to Portugal as a corpse in a suitcase, etc, etc), I begin to lose patience with the wacky and paranoid anti-McCannites. This forum has the most wildly outrageous conspiracy theorists I’ve seen anywhere outside of alien abduction forums.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:22 am
Meej, I’d be happy to answer your questionnaire. I’m the only person I know who gets excited when pollsters ring me up and pepper me with questions.
Remig- actually, I have some wheat intolerance, but if someone would make me a spelt donut, mmmmmm…. Come to think of it, maybe I should go look for a recipe.
It seems like it was a vaguely interesting day in Madeleine World, with several new and interesting theories running around, but if I allow myself to go read posts instead of just talking about donuts, I might get dragged into a discussion, and that would be terrible. I have stuff to do.
December 19th, 2007 at 3:11 am
841
Ian Says:
December 19th, 2007 at 12:05 am
782 Good point.
Hadnt thought of that. That they were sedated that night is likely, or Gerry wouldnt have mentioned his ‘thoughts’ about it and nobody would have commented on the twins drowsiness.
Of course it may have been that they were sedated to support the idea of an abductor and Gerry intended to use the idea to explain Madeleine having been carried off without her making a lot of noise - as was suggested would be the case by Kates Mother. Clearly if the 5 minute window of opporunity is correct, if the cartoon man was carrying Madeleine in the manner described by Tanner, then the abductor wouldnt have had time for all the sedations. So Madeleine, not sedated, would have screamed the place down (as Kates Mothers says). Once again abduction theory collapses. However, the twins may have been drugged even though planned, but by Gerry to support the sedation of Madeleine, or simply to keep them quiet whilst all the planning and commotion took place.
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Once again, I agree with you to the letter.
December 19th, 2007 at 2:31 am
Ian
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Are you sure GM is a Knight of Malta? -
“One can become a member of the Order of Malta only by invitation. Only persons of undoubted Christian morality and practice, who have acquired merit with regard to the Sovereign Order, its institutions and its works are eligible for admission. Today, although some members of the Order are professed knights (having taken the three vows of poverty, chastity and obedience), others have pronounced only the promise of obedience. Most of the Order’s 12,500 knights and dames are lay members. Although they have not pronounced any religious vow, they are all devoted to the exercise of Christian virtue and charity, and committed to developing their spirituality within the Church and to expending their energies in serving the Faith and assisting others.”- http://www.knightsofmalta.com
“The painful saga of modern Arab-Muslim history evokes the battles fought in Crusades of the 11th centry - when the Knights of Malta began their operations as a Christian militia whose mission it was to defend the land conquered by the Crusaders. These memories return violently to mind with the discovery of links between the so-called security firms in Iraq such as Blackwater have historic links with the Order of Malta. You cannot exaggerate it. The Order of Malta is a hidden government or the most mysterious government in the world.”
- Jordanian MP Jamal Muhammad Abidat, from an editorial in the United Arab Emirates daily Al-Bayan entitled “The Knights of Malta - more than a conspiracy”. Abidat describes the role played by the Knights of Malta during the Crusades, and that the Order is playing a similar role in the Middle East today, citing the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Blackwater is more than just a “private army”, much more than just another capitalist war-profiteering business operation. It is an army operating outside all laws, outside and above the US Constitution and yet is controlled by people within and outside our government whose allegiance is primarily to the foreign Vatican state. In other words, Blackwater is a religious army serving the Pope in Rome through the Order of Malta, which is itself considered under international law, as a sovereign entity with special diplomatic powers and privileges. Like Blackwater, the Order of Malta is “untouchable” because it is at the heart of the elite aristocracy.
The Knights of Malta is not merely a “charitable organization”. That’s just an elaborate front, as should become clear to you later. As the name Sovereign Military Order of Malta confirms, it is a military order based on the crusader Knights Hospitaller of Jerusalem and is interwoven with Freemasonry. Most people have never even heard of SMOM, much less that it is a part of Freemasonry. But that is the way the aristocratic elite like it.
One of the symbols of the military orders of the Vatican, the masonic double-headed eagle emblazoned with the Maltese cross, signifies omnipotent royal dominion over both East and West. The orb signifies temporal dominion over the globe of Earth, and the scepter signifies control over the spiritual and religious impulses of humanity. This eagle symbol is used in the masonic rite of Memphis and Misraim, under which it reads, “Order Out of Chaos”, the Hegelian method of crisis creation. It is found on the seals of many European and Eurasian nation states including that of Russia, indicating direct Vatican control over those countries. It symbolizes the desire of a predatory elite with virtually unlimited resources, to totally dominate the entire world under a New World Order global government system using secrecy, manipulation, coercion and terror with the ends justifying the means. aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2007/ 10/01/blackwater-knights-of-malta-in-iraq
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December 19th, 2007 at 2:27 am
Murder (and Meejician)
I categorically do not know, and have never known, Meejician’s friend. I did once Google her. Very little there really.
Points scored? In the overall picture it’s hardly a matter of great import which of two Liverpool schools KM went to. I suppose it’s a bit more likely she’d have gone to a Catholic school but that’s about it really. I know Meejician, that you were angry about how the mistake arose, but it hardly seems to matter much! Yawn!
I will read my online Leicester Mercury with new interest! Don’t you also write for other newspapers?
December 19th, 2007 at 2:26 am
Meejician, you say “I am always brutally honest. That’s my USP. It works even better on telly and radio than it does in print or on message boards.” To be honest is always the best policy, on that I totally agree as one loses respect for someone who lies or deliberately twists the truth to suit their own fancy. However, to be ‘brutally honest’ I would think gives the one talked to pause as to that person’s true intent in telling the truth. Is it to show their superiority to the one or ones they are talking to or to belittle the ones they are being ‘brutally honest’ to? I’m not picking an argument with you, Meejician, I’m just curious if you meant ‘brutal’ as brutal can mean: vicious, cold-blooded. I’ve seen much of that on here but never picked up on it in you or in your writings on here.