Writes AGW:
This. Yes this medium, can be highly dangerous. Every day we are bombarded by porn, medical, cigarette and penis extension offers.
We suffer from them individually via our e-mails and this site and Forum have the same threats and risks which the Editor, technical whizzes and Moderators do their level best to protect you from.
Over the past year another threat has developed and is growing. To my cynical mind it may even be a threat nurtured by the glistering, tempting and shimmering, mirage of big out-of-court settlements and agreements.
It’s the McCann thing again. The biggest potential danger area now appears to be coming from subscribers and contributors themselves.
We have long been aware of an orchestrated campaign from both pro and antis camps in the McCann case. I must repeat we find such descriptions absolute nonsense. How can anyone be pro or anti a missing beautiful little girl child?
As the story has developed it has become a a pro and anti parents or police positional issue and a clash of cultures (which it may have been from the beginning).
It is more prominent in the Comment/Opinion side of the Anorak site and posters with well-entrenched positions are attempting to slip one in. Get the latest publication and rumour from the Portuguese press into the public domain via Anorak.
Anorak is a UK-based site which comments on those commentating and reporting the news. It is extremely well-read and even respected in the media world and readership alike. The Moderators attempt to keep it a safe place to be.
Once again the McCann story has become not the story of the missing child but the way it can be reported. British media have a governance system, enforced in law, that of libel and tort. The basic principal is simple if you can not prove it do not write it. The law is different in other European countries but the British media have always had the opportunity to cover crime stories freely, until charges have been made. Then during court cases all is revealed and reportable. There are other privileged areas where the laws of libel do not apply. Parliament has absolute privilege and if it said there it can be reported. Public meetings such as Council Chambers also have a limited privilege.
Alleged leaked foreign police reports and journals do not have the protections necessary for the UK media nor do internet sites. There have been some truly disgraceful comments in other sites and there is talk of action.
To give you an idea of how Anorak deals with it all,
I repeat an exchange from the Opinion side of this site which took place through the night
The contributor(s?) Gandolf had attempted to publish a report from a Portuguese media outlet which speculated on alleged difference between a book and supposedly leaked police reports.
Despite the fact the risks were self-evident there was a suspicious insistence to refer to the articles.
On many separate occasions he/she/they challenged the Moderators and eventually me after I had given a ruling. He then attempted to publish this.
Fair enough. If you wish to take on me then the gloves are off and my view is below.
The Moderators remain the Guardians of the site and their decisions are final. Only a cretin would challenge them, the editor or me. We are passionate about free speech. That viewpoint neither gives you the right to abuse it nor will we allow you the opportunity to demonstrate your discourtesy by insult or abuse to us. The others here do not deserve it and I don’t give a a gnat’s life expectancy in an insect killer for your opinion of me.
Gandolf’s latest (and now released) was:
Garbage or not agw, it is as requested from a legitimate news source, if we are only to post officially verified statements that is a different matter and somewhat narrows the target area. The obvious question is …..was the report leaked or was it made available to certain parties, you may have noticed that the Portuguese authorities have made no comment on the alleged leak, call me cynical, but I am willing to bet a Ruby to a grain of sand that no one will be looked for or charged over this media claimed leak.
M&A
Artemis
Unless and until the reports are officially released you are relying on conjecture and that is not acceptable given the nature of the material.
Administrator: Two things. Anorak may very well be looked at and charged because of your recklessness and stupidity…because that’s what your attitude is. A news source not bound by the constraints of British laws can do as it pleases. You, and we, may not.
Secondly: I keep repeating I have no opinion in this case. That is not exactly true. If we are to presume an innocence for the parents of the missing child then at least get off your moral high horse and give the policeman Amaral the same presumption. Whatever the charges he now faces and their outcome, he has the same right to be presumed innocent, until proved otherwise…and he was the investigating officer-in-charge of a case which still has no answers and no recovered child.
The child remains missing and I regret to point out only a grieving parent or a crystal ball gazer can truly believe the child is still alive. No policeman in the world would tell you otherwise. Private investigation companies are a different matter and will possibly give a different opinion. Well they would wouldn’t they?
I would suggest you stop idle and nonsensical speculation and concentrate on the failures evident in this case. Those failures have nothing to do with guilt or innocence but I will say this: the first and primary cause of this was the parents’ urge to spend time with adult friends and not in the guardianship role of mother or father. The original opportunity to commit a crime (if there was one) a fault and/or sin was not created by the obvious original police errors and or failures. As always, the investigating teams come in to try and sort out the truths. They have no reason or justification to do any other.
Ask yourself this: If there is ANY guilt here, where does it lie? Police, alleged abductor(s), fiends or friends, media, the Pope, the British government and its consular service or parents?
There can be no crime without motive and opportunity.
We have no answers for you. No facts. I have strong beliefs but will keep my opinions to myself…other than one I expressed months ago. Whatever else we are looking at, it is a family utterly destroyed and in shards. It will never recover from this. The tragedy will never go away. The fingers will never stop pointing and I can not imagine the horrors and chance accusative confrontations which still lie ahead for Kate Healy and Gerald McCann. Together or apart.-agw
Finally: The media and the law are incestuous creatures. They play and breed together. They feed each other. Both sometimes take themselves far too seriously and lose sight of the true story. We should not.
August 4th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
AGW -
Bravo/a (whichever is applicable)! Because of your oversight and care, this website continues to be one I dip in and out of. Well-run, and good discussions. Thanks from a Yank!
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 am
Thanks Meercat, will do !! It’s just like the old adage ” If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” !! You will obviously know that if you click on the “RSS 2.0″ thing, it just comes up with a page full of “computer-speak ” and it did take a little bit of figuring out which just goes to prove that being a member of MENSA doesn’t necessarily mean I have any common sense !!
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:49 am
Ann Says:
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:47 am
M & A
What is wrong with your new “updated” site ? I click on the thread I am interested in, it will say that there are X no: of responses yet only one page of same will be showing, not only are there no numbers by the responses, but there are no further page numbers until I click on the bit that says “RSS 2.0″ and then the boxes for the next pages show up, but - having read those, they then go away again and the whole process has to be gone through again and yet it quite cleartly shows in the side bar under “Recent Comments” that I have posted !! This is why I thought, some posts back, that I had been relegated to the “naughty chair”, is there some technique to navigating the new set-up which is passing me by ? and why are there Avatar boxes and not numbers beside the posters ? no-one is going to stick their picture on here for very obvious reasons, unless it is an alter-ego like Daffy Duck or something !!
___________________________________
m&a
Understand your frustration Ann! Several technical hitches which are being worked through at the moment. The site is being upgraded, so stay with us.
-meercat
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:29 am
Fair Says:
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 am
“Sadly though Elena it’s the ordinary common folk like us that get caught & punished for the trivial parking/speeding fine etc. The ”’proper”’ criminals appear to get away scot free or get the proverbial slap on the wrist. This country (& I’m sure others too) really have to wake up before it’s too late. And that needs to be P D Q!! (imo..of course )”
But that is no accident. The police and the Home Office are targeting ordinary common folk for these trivial offences, because it makes money ( a great deal of money), it it easy, it is quick.
Most of these offences are now purely administrative issues, and the criminal sanction, the bit where you have your 5 minutes in court, only kicks in when you fail or refuse to pay the fixed penalty.
Police love them because they can submit their monthly ‘returns’ to the Home Office.
The Home Office love them because they can use the figures to confuse activity with results.
The Treasury love them because they can divert the money where they want.
Real crime costs money to investigate. It costs money to prosecute, and it costs money to keep the criminals locked up. For the above reason the Police senior management, the Home Office, and the Treasury do not like it.
Did you realise that the Police have to pay, out of the annual budget for each Force, for forensic examination of exhibits. Someone ‘privatised’ the Forensic Science Service.
Real pay. Real money. So each murder / rape / bombing enquiry has a Forensic budget.
The burglary on your house ? Forget it. The reality is that it is too expensive to investigate.
It is already too late. I emigrated.
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 am
Really, allegedly , possibly, perhaps who knows. http://tinyurl.com/5697uy
August 3rd, 2008 at 4:13 am
How many other parents have been news in media and on the internet after their child has gone missing. Not many! IMHO - there has been something fishy about this whole business from the beginning. Actions speak louder than words, and what have we seen, well, what we have seen has not been good.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 am
Sadly though Elena it’s the ordinary common folk like us that get caught & punished for the trivial parking/speeding fine etc. The ”’proper”’ criminals appear to get away scot free or get the proverbial slap on the wrist. This country (& I’m sure others too) really have to wake up before it’s too late. And that needs to be P D Q!! (imo..of course
)
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:51 am
Coco,
We had visitors and they left a short time ago. I logged in to see what antics I missed and I found your post. I guess I am the last person you want a reply from but what the heck. Scroll if you like.
I can’t imagine anybody wanting to sue you. I mean who would make the dollies?
Seriously whatever you think, freedom does come with legislation.It is the freedom not to be scandalised unfairly for a start. I mean imagine if it were you or your parents. Gossip hurts and it doesn’t matter who you are you don’t deserve to be hurt by gossips.
Policemen and doctors are not above the law. Neither are we. Nobody is.
Eventually the truth comes out, it nearly always does so don’t worry about that.Have faith
You can voice your opinion. We all can. It is just that we have to be sure nobody gets really hurt in the process.I mean, none of us knows what happened. We may think we have a good idea, but we don’t know.
A dramatic protest such as you mentioned would only hurt your friends and those close to you. In terms of the freedom you are seeking it would change nothing. As regards charisma, you have it, heaps of it. I mean daft and all as your posts are they are impossible to ignore.
If you want to change things, don’t moan or threaten dramatic gestures.Use that charisma.
Remember you are a very clever and entertaining poster. You are very likely a very clever and entertaining individual. I am sure what you said above was meant to entertain, but just in case, don’t even think about it please. You have too much to offer.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:11 am
I may have to hang myself in protest at all this libel stuff!
I am not a well person and I can’t cope with not having a fag in the pub - never mind having to keep my dark thoughts under control.
We must start to protest against all these laws. Slow erosion is fatal to free speech.
It’s insidious and creeps up on us until a couple of generations hence - our own grand-children will look at us aghast and tell us that we are blaspheming if we call people like Mr Brown a tw*t!
No living person’s reputation should be considered to be above a tiny person’s disappearance.
Loving parents would understand that.
I think that all this media monitoring and surveillance of emails is just too ridiculous for fucking words.
How many Government agencies have lost discs of information lately?
And these are the same people who want to repeat our words back to us in litigation!
What says poor Mr. Ian Blair about these outrageous and ludicrous accusations that he allegedly given his mates some contracts!
For fuck’s sake!
Will Scotland Yard get in their heads that policemen and doctors are above the law!!!
Above the law right! Policemen and doctors don’t do anything wrong - ever!
I hope Mr. Blair sues the arses of these people!
And ……. I hope that Saudi Prince who did not never ever in anyway take improper payments for anything for anything to do with contracts sues the arses off these people.
Whoever these people are! Even if they are ………………
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:54 am
The past couple of years have seen the biggest blow to democracy that I have come across in my short life.
Not only are we being taught how we can speak - we are being told how to think.
The more charismatic the polititician - the further he goes in politics.
And if they are good-looking - Well! The World is their oyster.
The more eloquent and articulate the writer or author - the more the human consciousness is moved in the direction of focussing on the information.
The trouble with this fabulous internet-thingy and is quite simply that there are no trappings of personality. We don’t know the politics, the wealth or the connections of the writer.
No nudges, nods or smiles - just human communication with no accents or physiognomy to berate.
THIS IS WHY THE CMs and the McCs of the World want to slap sites like Anorak and newspaper posters with warnings.
FEAR OF THE COMMENTARIAT!
Word of mouth - in print!
Absolutely fucking no way of controlling the public.
Freedom Fighter or Terrorist?
Lovable rogue or wife-beating womaniser?
We can’t be fed this sh*te on the net because we have a way to debate the issue with other more informed and educated people.
The internet is one of the reasons China is scared!
So what the fuck is it doing to the Clan? If a big country like China is scared of the net , they Clan must be sh*tting it. LOL
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:46 am
Apparently not
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 am
any news?
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
You are most welcome, Christine.
I hope tomorrow is a better day…
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Chenier
Yes bad news indeed. I knew the guy had special interests but when I saw his body being brought out, it was very sad, the end of a life. I thought about his Dad and his dog. Don’t know where they are now. Shouldn’t even be saying this on this website but - it was just happening before my eyes tonight. Thanks for responding Chenier.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Christine Says:
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
———————
Bad news, then…
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Hi Chenier
Yes I do think it was a murder. In fact I heard a shot on Friday night that I thought was a shot and immediately dismissed it. And as it was Friday night - my account of time goes off. No doubt it’ll be in the local press on Monday. All I can say really is the guy had a history that followed him. He had a really beautiful dog that I haven’t seen for ages. When our dogs were puppies, I took them to outside where the BIG dog lives and they went and said - yes that’s a big dog - can we go home now please. The dog was a very docile cool dude.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Saul Says:
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Saul Says:
“Now that Arguıdo status has been lıfted can we at last have an answer to the questıon.
“dıd you know Robert Murat” ”
And to the supplementary “Why did you react in that extraordinary way when you were first asked the question ?”
——–
Yawn, come poıntıes, ıts not that dıffıcult a questıon.
—-
Just ın case there are some stragglers from “The Nags Head”
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Julıe, heel aardıg van je Meısje, thats all my Delfzıjl Dutch for you
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:04 pm
if you are convinced to know what happened and you cannot prove it, this is hell. it’s like another OJ case. and we just want to see information from all possible sources printed in the UK - for joe public to make up his mind. lible threats make it impossible. the sad thing is, while you are protecting free spech….the other side of the medal is, you fail to make available all the clues. life is hard, there is no justice.
and no, fingerpointing only is not the right punishment.
poor madeleine
————-
M&A
Artemis
If you cannot prove what happened then you cannot, logically, be convinced that you know what happened. Lack of proof means lack of evidence.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Christine Says:
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 pm
I’m sorry to hear that, Christine.
Is there any particular reason why you think it was a murder?
It’s just that the police are often called to unexpected deaths…
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Whoops
One last one before I hit the sack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfSFSM2kDEs&feature=related
Nite!
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 pm
We had a murder on our road today! Police just left, body left at 8:00 pm, his car left at 9:00 pm. The reason I know it was the guy that lived there is because he was a great big guy and the dead body carried out by the police was a great big person. Four doors away from me. The only reason I’m saying this is that the world I’ve known and trusted is slipping away and values and respect for human beings has deteriorated rapidly.
Sorry, way off topic but I’m thinking that life is losing importance. I value my life but it seems not everyone does.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Whoops
Just for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3×76tT_oCeI
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Worryingly I do understand him!…He’s saying has anyone got any special requests for him to sing tonight-his favourite is-The White Cliffs of Dover-but he can do any Lonny Donnegan numbers.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Translation is :
Will you please stop speaking that funny language, I can’t understand you.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:30 pm
julie-sure is-a guess I might add!
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Duncan- how are those melodies coming along-hope you’ve not singed your cardy getting too close to the fire. Ah bless!
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Whoops - is that your translation of what I said to Duncan?
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Julie-I can say what I like about you and you cannot understand me?
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Duncan R Says:
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Jo says
Saul
I was a bit surprised by Duncans intervention,I must admit but hey! since he is his “sweet Duncan”….things are getting worse on anorak.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Duncan’s intervention ???
What, me ?
When?
Ah’m tellin’ you’se all noo. It wisnae me.!
Ah wiz naewhere near the place.
Ah hae an alibi. Ah wis doon the chippy haein a black puddin’ supper at the time.
________________________
Sal jy asseblief ophou om daai snaakse taal te praat, ek kan jou nie verstaan nie
August 2nd, 2008 at 8:56 pm
I thought everyone believed, because KM told us, that she was being treated like a princess and giving people her ‘tuppenceworth’.
Or did I miss some other ‘fact’.
Has something changed over the last 16 months, Kate ?