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The link below is the tragic story of an 8 year who had one of the once illegal weapons that had been banned by Law until Bush in 2004 permitted the law to lapse and those illegal weapons become legal.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/27/boy.shoots.himself.ap/index.html
I am sorry Cheryl, Pammela et al, but the US as an entity is insane.
There were 29,573 gun related deaths in the US in 2001. Even if you discount the suicides, that still leaves just over 12,000 homicides and accidental shootings.
In the 11.9.2001 attack on the WTC, there were just shy of 3000 deaths according to Wikipedia.
As a consequence of that event though, the US created a Department of Homeland Security, Invaded two countries leading to the deaths of probably at least 500,000 people in Iraq alone by 2006. Extrapolating from the 2001 homicides and accidents, there were probably in the order of 48,000 firearm homicides and accidental shootings in the US for 2002-2006.
Why such an incredible disproportionate direction of ire, when the biggest enemy lies within?
You are preaching to the wrong person telling me we are an insane country, TRS! I've been preaching that on here for years! Guess you have missed out on all my multitude of rants over the years about the brainless one having the blood on his hands of our over 4,000 soldiers alone because of 3,000 being killed on 9/11. And you are right there are probably at least 500,000 people, including children, in Iraq and Pakistan(?) dead because of this country's seeking revenge for the attack upon our soil and 3,000 killed.
I have spent many years doing volunteer work for the Brady Group Gun Control in my spare time. It is a never ending battle, TRS. There will always be guns owned - one's Right under the Constitution. Every State in the US has their own laws governing owning guns. The shocker to ne was several months ago when the Supreme Court ruled the law outlawing the owning of handguns in DC was illegal and it was their right to own handguns. They had been outlawed in DC for 30 years. Listen to the news or pick up the Post every morning you could easily read of 4 or 5 deaths by guns the night before in DC. That was just when the criminal element or drug dealers had illegal weapons. Now, you can have 'shoot outs' in DC -- good against bad!
The slaughters in our colleges and schools make headlines even over in the UK - students slaughtering students! Why? They can get their hands on guns - some get them legally as they are old enough to buy one or some use their parents or some buy them from those elements who sell them on the streets. Little children ages around 5 have killed their siblings playing with their parents' guns they find. Teenagers get drinking and take out a famiy gun and start playing around with their friends - one inevitably gets shot! Teenagers have committed suicide with family guns. Teenagers have killed their parents deliberately with family guns. Teenagers kill their friends they get angry with with family guns. Parents have accidently killed their children sneaking in through a window late at night thinking they were a burglar with the family gun. Husbands and wives kill each other deliberately with guns. Relatives seek revenge and kill relatives with guns - point in case the singer's family and nephew killed the psst week. Man in LA depressed from loss of a job last month killed his wife, two children, mother-in-law and then himself with a gun. The list could go on for pages. Just pick up a newspaper from over here or watch a TV news program and you'll hear of the latest deaths by guns over here.
It will never stop, TRS, never! The Right to Bear Arms is a Right under the Constitution and that Right will NEVER be taken away!
Way to go Cheryl! I just knew....
Hi Cheryl
My apologies if I seemed to be preaching to the converted as that wasn't my intent. Just blowing off steam as it were.
Are not the fruits of the brainless ones stacking of the supreme court sweet? I am always astonished at the right to bare arms thing. The Swiss keep household weapons for defense of the country without anything like the disastrous consequences the US suffers. I think they mostly have rifles rather than hand guns, which I think in part has a large bearing on outcomes.
I love and applaud the right to freedom of speech your constitution provides for, but not the gun thing.
One of the most tragic stories I can remember is a couple of kids went trick or treating on Halloween and went up to some nutters house and he shot them dead. I always remember that one at this time of year.
History repeats:
Trick-or-treat boy killed in US
"A 12-year-old has been shot dead while trick-or-treating with his family in the US state of South Carolina.
The boy's father and brother were also wounded by gunfire, police said.
The shooting occurred in Sumter at about 2030 (0030 GMT) when the family approached a house and a man fired on them from inside the property. "
:-(
Saw that in the news also and thought about what you wrote the other day, TRS. Here is an interesting article I found surfing the net re guns and murders.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=87f79c5a-bb60-4e3c-9e34-87a6dc839460
And here's another, an 8 year old boy murders his father and another man:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7717545.stm
An interesting statistic would be how many Americans successfully manage to use a gun to defend their life and property against 'baddies' as opposed to how many are killed by a family owned weapon. My guess is the ratio is probably 1:500 or greater.
The mentality is amazing. On another forum, the topic arose as to what people regularly carry in their pockets or on their person. I recall one American who proudly showed a photo of the car keys, wallet, hand made knife and Glock automatic with spare clip.
I think there are 9 rounds to a clip, so that's 18 rounds of ammunition. I wondered if he expected a civil war or anarchy to ensue while he popped down the road for a litre of milk and packet of bacon.
TRS, you beat me to that one also - had it copied and ready to post on here. See you got it from bbc news it is all over our papers over here. Going to be interesting to see how the authorities handle this one - will they charge an 8 year old and with what?
Do you remember years ago in Florida the 13 year old boy got life? That turned into a real sad story and sad life for him, as after that he couldn't stay out of trouble. Here is the link to that. http://www.courttv.com/trials/wrestling/background.html
Don't forget, TRS, over here some of the states were convicting and sentencing to death teens under 18. The Supreme Court had to rule on a case re that and just said no no more putting teens to death under 18. There were several teenage girls sitting on death row then! Now you have to be 18 or older to get the death sentence.
TRS - here is the AOL story on it I had copied - has more information in it.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/ariz-boy-8-accused-of-killing-2/n20081108134009990016
Cheryl
Putting to death girls under the age of 18 is something Iran does.
Got to love fundamentalism, whatever religion it happens to be based in.
When poking around this subject I came across something on the incarceration rate in the US versus other countries. It is nothing short of shocking. The US incarcerates 750 people per 100,000 of the population. Here in Ireland it is about 80.
Thanks for the link.
i really do think no-one should be put to death, man woman child terrorist murderer what ever.
TRS, you would probably be shocked at how vicious teenage girls can be and their crimes are just as bad or maybe even more horrendous than teenage boys. Frankly, run neck in neck, especially in the gang killings. We've had a few teenage girls over the last couple of years putting 'hits' on their mothers and getting the boy friends to do it. One young teenager just got sentenced to life this past year for that, along with the boy friend. When they are sentenced as young teenagers they go to jails for youth offenders and then at 18 are transferred to prisons with the adults! Life means life over, TRS, if that is how the judge rules it. Judge or jury says life without parole they grow up in prison, live in prison and die in prison.
I'll tell you something, TRS, you look at the people in prison for life or sitting on death row or executed the majority are Black or Hispanic. Many years ago I use to have a young Hispanic boy Bobby, quite poor, do odd jobs around just to give him some money to buy shoes, etc. Got in with the 'wild' crowd and went out one night drugged out of his mind at 18 and shot and killed the man at a 7-11 near here. They jury recommended death and judge upheld it. He was executed here in VA at 22! Broke my heart, we all fought real hard to keep him from being executed but to no avail. He wasn't a bad kid but got in with the wrong crowd and just that one night sealed his fate. VA shows little mercy no matter what their age. Texas is 10 times worse.
People who know me call me a bleeding heart liberal when I get on my band wagon about every kid deserves a break. I got burnt by that recently. A young man from this area with very prominent parents I was friends with burglarized my house in May and was charged with 3 felonies which would get him about 3 years in prison (age 19). Finally went to trial just two weeks ago and I got feeling sorry for him thinking about a kid at 19 going thru life with 3 felonies on his record. Since I was the victim I had input in what I wanted to see happen to him which I felt would be justice for his crime. Blew the prosecutor, police and judge's mind when asked what I wanted for justice and I said can you reduce the charges down to misdomeanors and order him to paint my house and do repairs, which needed done. The judge said this boy deserves 3 years and I said I know but let's give one chance to prove himself. She didn't like it but I wasn't cooperating so she ordered him to paint my house and the PO would check it weekly. BUT if he didn't do it or didn't do it properly he would serve a year in prison and the charges of felonies would be reinstated. He showed up for work that Friday, Saturday and Sunday a week ago and was doing a beautiful job. Monday he didn't show up and I wondered what happened. My youngest son called me to say John won't be there Mom in case you are waiting for him - he was picked up late last night and charged with Grand Larceny Auto theft! Yep, he left my house that Sunday night and went and stole a car! So, he is in jail now, bail denied, and gets my year to serve and 3 additional ones on the auto theft!
Update on 8 year old who killed his Dad and his Dad's friend.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/priest-slain-dad-had-taught-boy-8-to-use/n20081108214209990017
He's only 8, the adults who surrounded him must answer,(those who are alive)
The one who is responsible is dead, June. That father put a potentially lethal weapon into the hands of an 8 year old child and taught him how to use it.
But his mother is alive, why did she leave? (not the child) but his father
Same question in my mind, June, when I read the father had total custody of the child. But 'mother dear' is on her way there now. Well, we'll all be reading her version of the story in the near future in the papers. However, the whole focus should be on getting that young child intensive counselling for years go come. I won't be too surprised if there is 'grandstanding' by the police there and actually trying to bring charges against him. Scarey though, June, that child knew the dangers of a gun and used it not just once by 'accident' but twice ...
But can a child of 8 appreciate what 'death' is?
Even critically ill children bear their lot with real stoicism, but do they understand?
June, that has been debated for years at what age do children understand. Even the courts have an age limit on when a child's testimony can be accepted. You did read in the article where there was mention about police being called to the home in the past and questions now raised what was going on? Unfortunately, June, I do believe an 8 year old in this day and age understands what death means. Do I think they understand the full consequences of their actions as to what can or will happen to them if they shoot someone - no! Watching children grow up today has astounded me, June, from when we were growing up. They are so much more aware of what goes on around them at younger ages than we ever were. They watch programs on TV that have people killing others in them; the video games they have now are appalling - even at young ages. They see the news on TV or read the newspapers. What you as a parent restrict them when young from viewing on TV at home or forbid certain video games they see at friends' houses or play the games at friends' houses. He was taught about guns by his father he knew what he was doing. There have been articles in the newspapers over here in the past where little grade school kids have taken their parents guns to school to frighten their classmates they have been angry at. The parents usually get charged if the kids are found with their guns; as there are strict laws in many States on keeping guns locked up and dismantled so a child can't get their hands on them or if able to they are not loaded.
However, June, the NRA will most likely make their usual statement - guns don't kill people, people kill people!
There are other weapons to hand, knives, every kitchen has a set.
A parent who teaches a child to use a gun may not emphasise ENOUGH the fatality risk.
A problem with tv violence, the dead actor could be seen again , very much alive,and unharmed soon after the violence scene.
We adults have understood that most women on tv have spent hours in 'makeup' and don't always look so perfect, and men don't always appear the Adonis' portrayed, but we are adults, but do children fully grasp this? and therefore can they understand the pain felt, and the real blood spattered?
These days childhood is taken away too soon, I remember being 8, climbing trees and being a complete tomboy, no pressure at school, I was a child.
But maturity must wait, they may appear to be all knowing, but they shouldn't be
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