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British Sailors Held by Iran

(33 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by JohnBlake
  • Latest reply from JuneJohnson

  1. JohnBlake
    Member

    British Prime Minister Tony Blair stated that Irans detention of fifteen English citizens was very serious`
    I am sure that the families and friends of those people are very concerned for the safe and quick return of their loved ones.

    The words by Blair about it being serious made me angry because there has been many reports about the disgraceful treatment of British military by their OWN government that have filled the newspapers.

    The failure to provide proper boots and other equipment.
    The failure to provide modern and quality living conditions for thousands of miltary people and their families( Sir Mike Skinner,) the former Head of the British army saying that conditions were SHAMEFUL.
    The failure to give injured military world-class medical treatment on their return to the UK.
    The sending of young men UNDER the age of 18 into military action
    The failure to give an excellent salary to those who put the life at risk for England

    In my book, ALL of the above is VERY SERIOUS and shows what disgusting trash that we have running the country.A total lack of HIGH standards alround by Blair and his gang.

    I`ve got no respect for Tony the phoney.....he has proven to be the enemy WITHIN.

    JOHN BLAKE

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    I share your opinion of Tony Blair. The man's a w***ker.

    In the current crisis, the principle aim should be the swift, and safe, return of our 'captured' military personnel. There are only 2 ways this will come about – through diplomatic negotiations or by military (SAS) intervention.

    Can't help feeling the best opportunity to secure the release of the hostages has already gone. Quiet talk after the incident about 'possible misunderstandings', 'accidentally strayed', faulty navigational equipment' etc might have -

    a. secured the return of the captives or
    b. lulled the Iranians into a false sense of security and therefore granted the SAS the advantage of 'surprise' when they launched a rescue attempt.

    Tony 'talking tough' right from the start, however, has -

    a. hardened the Iranian attitude and made it less likely that our personnel will be released quickly - for the Iranians, it is now about 'losing face'

    b. Releasing information to show precise location where incident took place removes the opportunity to use the 'accidental straying/faulty equipment' ploy

    c. Following Tony's tough talking, the Iranians will now be expecting a 'miltary operation' to free the hostages and be taking precautions to guard against this, thus making the SAS task more difficult.

    All in all, Tony's intervention, far from helping, has actually made the situation worse for the captives. Far better if he had kept his mouth shut and let quiet diplomacy resolve the crisis.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. And this is true:
    Copy and apste into broswer

    http://www.anorak.co.uk/twitterings/172203.html

    (I'll make this easier with links soon...)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    A 'turn for the worse'

    Efforts to secure the release of the captured British soldiers/sailors suffered a setback with news that USA President, George 'Wanker' Bush had stepped into the affair, condemning Iran's 'inexcusable behaviour' and insisting the captives be released 'immediately'.

    When 'quiet' diplomacy is required, the Iranian's arch-enemy wading into the dispute and dictating to them what they should do is likely to be a hindrance rather than a help!

    Fortunately, the captives are taking steps to help secure their own release. Appearing on TV confessing to - and apologising for - intruding into Iranian waters gives the Iranians the propoganda victory they require for their own people. Since the eventual form of words agreed to by the two governments to secure the release of the 15 captives will stop short of an admission of guilt or apology by the UK, the televised apologies by the captives will allow the Iranians to free them without losing face amongst their own population.

    The UK Government has condemmed the televised images of the captives as totally unacceptable. I rather think the relatives and friends of the 15 have a different view - being relieved to see images of their loved ones apparently fit and well. (I suspect military intelligence are also happy to see televised footage and will be poring over these images looking for any information/clues that may indicate where the captives are being held!)

    All in all, since the majority of people - outside of Iran - probably believe the captives are only saying what they are being asked to say by the Iranians, I believe these televised broadcasts are doing more good than harm in helping to secure the eventual release of the captives.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Couldn't they just exchange them for Bush and Blair? Not meant as flippant I do seriously mean this.
    The whole of the Iraq/Iran business was totally unnecessary, just a personal agenda of Bush and totally wasting human lives for this end.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. June - genius. We can through in euan as well...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Can think of quite a few other people I'd willingly through into the exchange!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Oops!

    In view of the spelling mistake in my previous post, thought I'd share the following verse I found on the internet.

    THE SPELLCHECKER SONG

    I have a spelling checker.
    It came with my PC.
    It plane lee marks four my revue
    Miss steaks eye can knot see.

    Eye ran this poem threw it.
    Your sure real glad two no.
    Its very polished in its weigh,
    My checker tolled me sew.

    A checker is a blessing.
    It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
    It helps me right awl stiles two reed,
    And aides me when eye rime.

    Each frays come posed up on my screen
    Eye trussed too bee a joule.
    The checker pours o'er every word
    To cheque sum spelling rule.

    Bee fore a veiling checkers
    Hour spelling mite decline,
    And if we're laks oar have a laps,
    Wee wood bee maid too wine.

    Butt now bee caws my spelling
    Is checked with such grate flare,
    There are know faults with in my cite,
    Of nun eye am a wear.

    Now spelling does not phase me,
    It does knot bring a tier.
    My pay purrs awl due glad den
    With wrapped words fare as hear.

    To rite with care is quite a feet
    Of witch won should be proud,
    And wee mussed dew the best wee can,
    Sew flaws are knot aloud.

    Sow ewe can sea why eye dew prays
    Such soft wear four pea seas,
    And why eye brake in two averse
    Buy righting want too please.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. bill
    Member

    H.M.S. DUNCAN R and BATH TIME

    ‘‘Request back-up, repeat...’’ Crackle, hiss ‘‘...back-up from Navel control - over.’’ The radio operator’s voice was tinged with panic.

    ‘‘Ten-four’’ came the response from the Duncan R.

    Some time earlier the Duncan R. had slipped into U.N. regulated waters and had despatched a 14 man, 1 woman reconnaisance patrol, codenamed Rubber Duck, to test the temperature.

    Now Rubber Duck was in trouble. The Duncan R. recognised the operators voice, it was Able-bodied Sally (Sall) Debain.

    ‘‘Am being attacked by ‘‘Scum’’ on the water’s surface. Am in hot water. Request torpedoe.’’

    ‘‘No can do’’ came the response, ‘‘all torpedoes released before Duncan R. steamed into these waters, but might be able, at a push, to deliver some air support.

    ‘‘Am being held captive, why did Duncan R.’s chopper suddenly pull back? What should Rubber Duck do?’’

    ‘‘Remember your training’’ came the response from the Duncan R. ‘‘give them the old flannel, plenty of soft soap.’’

    ‘‘...and remember the Government's policy in affairs such as this - that’s Lifebouy.’’

    Duncan R. pulled the plug.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. "I am sure that I speak for everyone when I say how delighted I am that the Iranian goverment has released our 15 naval service personnel. This has obviously been a traumatic ordeal for all of them and their families and an extremely trying and difficult time for everyone else in involved in this unfortunate episode. Thankfully, common sense and cooler heads have prevailed. I must, however, make it categorically clear that we did not, nor would we ever, make any concessions, strike any bargains or agree any deals in order to secure their release. It is the unwavering policy of Her Majesty's government to stand firm in the face of threats and to strenuously resist any attempts at blackmail or intimidation of any kind. That said, all that remains for me to do is join in with the rest of the nation in offering up our prayers and thanks to merciful Allah and his last prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him. Thank you."

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Would be nice if Hezbollah followed President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's example and released Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. JohnBlake
    Member

    Hi Duncan,
    Looking at The President of Iran giving a private "audience" in front of the cameras with the British military .....your never so small as when you try to act BIG.

    Best,

    JOHN BLAKE

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. According to Reuters, defence secretary Des Browne has "castigated armchair pundits" who criticised how the naval personnel behaved. He is said to have told Sky News, "We ought to be very careful about commenting from the comparative comfort of wherever we are, when we are not out there on operations, about decisions that operational commanders and other people make."

    This of course, is the line the military often takes, thus arguing for a license to do whatever they deem fit, whether competently or not, free from the inconvenience of being held responsible for their actions.

    The killer phrase is more usually "armchair general", although "pundits" will serve. This is calculated to defuse criticism, especially from "gobshite civilians" whose role in the greater scheme of things is to pay the bills (such as for transporting 15 marines and sailors from Heathrow to Devon in not one but two helicopters ... how much did that cost, I wonder?) and keep their mouths shut.

    When it comes to comfort and "armchairs", however, we would have a long way to go to match the splendour of the MoD.

    Amongst other gems in their £2.3 billion head office refurbishment, was the purchase of 3,100 luxury Herman Miller Aeron chairs — the kind used by David Dimbleby on the BBC's Question Time — which have been described as "the most comfortable office chairs in the world". The cost is reputed to be more than £1,000 each, and not a few of these will be polished by well-upholstered uniformed rumps.

    And dare we wonder what sort of chair Des Browne has in his office?

    From Eu Refendum.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. bill
    Member

    There have been a few comments in the Forums regarding the 15 Service personel held captive by the Iranian government.

    However, unless I’m mistaken, none on their release from captivity by the (Merciful) Mahmoud and, indeed no comments regarding their behaviour during their imprisonment.

    More importantly, no-one has voiced any opinions on the effects this ‘‘propaganda war’’ has had on the standing of the ‘‘West’’, viewed through Middle-Eastern eyes. Let alone the effect it has had on the strength of the British forces as viewed by the coalition.

    Iran, in my opinion, has gained tremendously from the event it first stage-managed two weeks ago. It has shown the chinks in our armour, that we are not a formidable and indestructible force. If the seizing of our servicemen and woman, without a fight, wasn’t proof enough, then their behaviour during captivity was!

    Some of the first images the Iranians released were of Faye Turney, wearing a headscarf and smoking a fag. Much was made of the fact that she was the mother of a small child. ‘‘Why would a mother leave her child to perform front-line duties with the Military?’’ they asked. And who can blame them? You don’t have to be Iranian and Muslim to ask that question!

    After her apology for trespassing in Iranian waters, the rest of her entourage followed suit and caved in to Iranian demands that they too were knowingly guilty of trespass. The Navy personnel amongst the group, supposedly, could be forgiven as they had no training if they were captured - so why in Hell were they involved?

    As for the Royal Marines, they are supposed to be a Corps., of hardmen, and if the MOD is to be believed, are trained to withstand interrogation. So why did they so readily admit ‘‘Guilt’’?

    To be absolutely honest with you, if I had been in the same situation as them, I would have lost my bottle too.

    But, for that reason I never joined the Forces, I knew I wasn’t of the right calibre.

    And if I had been, and joined, I would be asking myself ‘‘Where was my heavily-armed escort, where was my air-cover?’’

    But even then, I don’t think I would have shaken the Iranian President’s hand, thanking him for his forgiveness and bloody Goodie-bag of Pistachio nuts like an infant going home, with his hair being ruffled, by an hospitable parent at a Birthday party.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Hi Bill

    The officer in charge of the boarding party, Captain Chris Air, has been quoted as saying -

    "Fighting back would have caused a major international incident and an escalation of tension within the region,"

    And allowing themselves to be captured didn't?

    Captain Air also said.-

    "Let me be absolutely clear, from the outset it was very apparent that fighting back was simply not an option. Had we chosen to do so then many of us would not be standing here today. Of that I have no doubts".

    Is this the new rules of engagement for our armed forces? Do not fight if there is any possibility that you yourself might get hurt? Are battles, in future, to be fought only between sides equally matched in numbers and weaponry?

    'Right let's have a head count. There's 15 of us. And there's, 1,2,3....16. Hey the Iranians have got an extra man at the back. The bloody cheats. Well that's it. No point in carrying on then. Might as well concede defeat. Let them have the 3 points'

    Being serious for a moment, I have heard several retired military personnel in recent days defending the presence of women in the forces, emphasising the important role they play, and praising the valuable contribution they make. Having said that, they all make the same point - that women should not work alongside men in the 'front line'. Their argument being that the male instinct to protect women can be a distraction in the heat of battle. Was Captain Air's decision not to offer any resistance to the Iranians an example of this? That to do so might have risked injury or death to Faye Turney?

    Can't help feeling the boarding party were let down by the lack of support from the 'mother' ship. Didn't they see the Iranian gunboats approaching on their radar. Couldn't they have offered some assistance? Launched a helicopter? Any enquiry into the capture of these 15 service personnel needs to focus not just on the actions/inactions of the captured boarding party but also those of the 'mother' ship

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. Says Josepeh in: http://www.anorak.co.uk/random-image/172301.html#comment-1005

    Um, Iran didn’t “kidnap” them. They were legitimately arrested as spies in or near Iran’s waters, as Capt. Air himself admitted in a Sky-News interview on March 13 before they were found out. Iran has been the local and legal power in this region of the world for thousands of years, unlike Britain which has absolutely no business being in Iraqi waters in the first place. I’m as pro-white person as the next Westerner, but Iran was in the right here. Let’s try to be rational and put ourselves in the shoes of our “faceless savage enemy” for once. Hurray for peaceful negotiation. As for the sailor’s confessions, they were simply admitting the truth, as any honest Christian would do. This also speaks to the decline of the importance of the nation state in our culture: these sailors (and many others) are no longer willing to throw away their lives to satisfy other people’s fascistic sense of “national pride”.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    So just a New labour political stunt turned sour?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    News today that MOD has decided the 15 captives can sell their stories to the Press - Faye Turney reported to have already sold story of her ordeal for £100k.

    As Craig Murray, a former head of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's maritime section, said.

    "....the idea that you can make several years' pay out of being captured - as opposed to not being captured and doing your job normally - is a rather strange incentive system."

    Just about sums it up, really. Seems, nowadays, failure is more rewarded than success - at least in miltery quarters!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. From Eu Refendum

    "This is very, very clever. But it also represents the very nadir of a loathsome government which is more interested in spin and its own survival than it is the welfare of the nation and the safety of its own troops.

    According to the BBC, the "frightened fifteen" are to be allowed to sell their stories to the media and keep the money.

    The Ministry of Defence has said their experiences amounted to "exceptional circumstances" that allowed its usual ban on such payments to be lifted. We are told that the MoD has said: "Serving personnel are not allowed to enter financial arrangements with media organisations. However, in exceptional circumstances such as the awarding of a Victoria Cross or events such as those in recent days, permission can be granted by commanding officers and the MoD."

    What a disgusting parallel this is – to equate the action of these people with the winners of Victoria Crosses. But how deviously clever it is of a totally unprincipled MoD. Instead of seeking "closure" as I first thought, the spin meisters have evidently sussed the continued public interest in this issue.

    By thus opening the gates to the "human interest" dimensions, it will feed the soap opera aspects of the Iranian hostage incident, drowning out the substantive issues in a torrent of irrelevant detail. And you can be assured that the stories will be very carefully vetted to exclude operational detail, in the interested of "national security", to ensure that nothing embarrassing leaks out.

    The media, of course, will fall in with this ploy. Whatever the distaste any particular newspapers might have had, greed will take over and we will see a bidding war for the rights to do the MoD's dirty work. Up front is LS Turney, who can command a premium for being the "plucky mum" in uniform.

    This is far more skilful than a mere cover-up. It has been difficult enough to try to get people focused on the circumstances which led up to this episode and now it will be even more difficult. Commodore Nick Lambert can sleep easy in his bed in the coming nights in anticipation of the next honours list when he will receive his knighthood in recognition of his services to a grateful government.

    Thus the rot which infects the very top of our Armed Forces will go unrecognised and unchecked. The weaknesses will remain unaddressed and the guilty will go unpunished.

    For the rest, the thousands of brave and unassuming service personnel who do their duty by their country – their jobs will be inestimably harder and dangerous. And more will die.

    By comparison with this government, Ahmadinejad is an honourable and principled man. As for the Navy (I can't bring myself to call it Royal), we might as well scrap it, for all the use it is.

    UPDATE

    According to The Sunday Telegraph, Turney is understood to have agreed a lucrative deal with ITV's Tonight with Trevor McDonald for a special programme to be broadcast tomorrow evening. It is thought the deal will also involve an interview with a tabloid newspaper. A source at the MoD said it involved a "life-changing sum".

    The paper says it is understood that she was offered more than £100,000 to describe exclusively her experiences of the hostage crisis and the deal with ITV and the newspaper, believed to be The Sun, is thought to be worth a substantial amount.

    The Sunday Times has it that critics are claiming that it (the aftermath) had become a media circus, with one former British commander saying the released hostages were behaving like reality TV contestants. The paper continues: "Others said they were being used as pawns in the propaganda war with Iran. But some former soldiers said it was a shrewd move by the MoD to control publication of the captives' stories."

    Given the amount of money being paid, I suppose that's inflation for you ... it used to be 40 pieces of silver."

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. Charliechivers
    Member

    Hi I'm back, Haven't heard from Cheryl for a while, I have been keeping an eye on my old mucker Don, who is in hospital after a Heart attack. 58 yeary ago this month Don was severely wounded while on duty on the bridge of the Amethyst, Two weeks ago he received an 80% disibility pension and it took him over two years to get it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. Cheryl
    Member

    Charlie: What do you mean haven't heard from me for awhile? You took me off the daily joke list and now I'm giving you the cold shoulder! However, never argue with a woman's memory - I sent the last email to you, you didn't respond to me. Serious note, things are extremely busy at work and can't remember when I took lunch last other than eating while reading, etc. Will get that article to you very shortly all most finished it and then they actually expected me to earn money at work so the finish went on the back burner. Have a call into Jan also for an update on his end. How is Mr. Redman doing?

    Will email you. Happy Easter!

    Cheers.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. Cheryl
    Member

    Your released hostages! You were not at war with Iran nor they with you, one can only shudder to think of the headlines over there in the UK then and now if your men and one woman had picked up guns and shot just one of the Iranian soldiers to defend themselves against capture! It was obvious from the beginning that Iran was showing its muscles and odds were high they were not intending to hurt your soldiers - crazy he is but as I wrote the other week he is not that crazy! Your soldiers did no wrong giving him the lip service of thank yous and pasted on but insincere smiles on their faces - the name of the game was to get the hell out of there - alive and walking -- not carried home!

    Should they be paid for their stories? No comment on that except to say take it out of Tony's salary - his fault they were in that part of the world to begin with.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Good idea! or his ott pension fund

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    Rule Britannia.

    Rule Britannia
    Britannia rules the waves
    Britons never never never
    shall be slaves

    Stirring sentiments – which seem, sadly, no longer appropriate in this day and age!

    While the 15 british sailors/marines were being held by the Iranians, I had every sympathy for their plight and had no problems with them appearing on Iranian TV confessing to trespass in Iranian waters – in any case, the majority of viewers would see these statements as 'empty' words with no real meaning, whilst it gave the Iranians the public apology they required to enable them to release the captives without loss of face amongst their own population.

    I am glad to see, however, that I am not alone in finding distasteful the idea that the captives should profit from the experience. At the end of the day, these 15 service personnel SURRENDERED their weapons, and themselves to the Iranians. Faced with a standoff, rather than hold their ground until reinforcements arrived these 15 sailors and marines – apparently - meekly handed themselves over to a 'bully'. Far from rewarding them, in an earlier age they would have been shot for cowardice! We are fortunate that the RAF pilots during the Battle of Britain did not refuse to take to the skies because they were outnumbered and some might suffer injury or death!

    If I was in the military I would be asking searching questions of the 15 to ascertain how they landed themselves in this position in the first place. Were there failures of command, errors of judgement, poor decisions made?

    Having been wrong-footed throughout by the Iranians, the MOD and the Government are now trying to regain some ground by dramatising the 'cruel' treatment of the captives. While the captives were no doubt frightened by their experience, I am not convinced that their treatment amounted to torture. True, Faye Turney was separated from her male colleagues – but, do we not also keep male and female prisoners separate in our own civilian prisons? True, her everyday clothing was removed and replaced with 'prison wear', but did our civilian prisons not follow the same practice until recent years? No doubt also that some of their guards tried to 'wind' them up', but this hardly ranks up there with the barbarity of the treatment meted out to Iraqi prisoners by the Americans at Abu Grab prison.

    Far from dramatising this incident, and rewarding 'apparently' incompetent, spineless sailors/marines, the MOD and the media would do better to pay these outrageous sums of money to soldiers fighting for their lives every day in Iraq and Afghanistan (for pitiful pay and conditions) who do not have the option of surrendering (and earning several years pay by so doing) when faced with a numerically superior enemy!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    They are no longer allowing them to sell their stories...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. bill
    Member

    Oh, Dear me, what a shame...never mind eh!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. Anonymous
    Unregistered

    usual bloody shambles , still a nice row too, but we should be used to this, had for 10 years now.

    Wonder if the whitewash brush ever dries out?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. GorgeousGeorge
    Member

    When you analyse the interview by Sir Trevor McDoughnut, (lost all respect for this man and this circus), you can clearly see that Faye Turney has embellished the story of her captivity.
    For God's sake they were only in detention for 14 days, and were treated quite well. Yes perhaps we don't know all the facts, but for Turney to initially admit she was told that the men had all been released and then in the next breath being made to decide who she would like to be released with her if she gave an admission of guilt stinks of a set up and embellishment by her, or her advisors. Max Clifford about???
    She and her colleagues were captured by an enemy force what did she expect a cup of tea and detention with a 100 lines? Look how appallingly the Septic Tanks have treated and still treat their captives. The British are not without blame here either.
    For the families of the killed British service personel, and for the current and past serving men and women this smacks of " Join the Services, get yourself caught and make a mint".
    This woman is a disgrace to the uniform she wears and the colleagues and servicemen she represented.
    Disgusting and I hope she feels ashamed, after all she wasn't the shiniest spanner in the box.
    Just been sent a joke;
    Fifteen British Servicemen have been captured in Iranian waters. One was a woman. Doesn't take much working out who was reading the map!!!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. GorgeousGeorge
    Member

    Cheryl, it is not Tony's fault that they were there it was George Wiener Bush and the American Terror Machine. Funny how you cowards buried you head in the sand and hoped this went away. In some ways I am glad our troops were captured and not yours, can you imagine the death and destruction the American Boy Scout Brigade would have caused. You as a nation are continuing to bring us closer to a World War that will end all wars.
    Get your head out of the rear of Bush's backside.....

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. bill
    Member

    Reading today's papers I see the Iranian hostage situation is still grabbing the headlines. The ‘‘Wimpy Fifteen’’ and the MOD are still being allowed to drag the British name through the shit.

    Why are they being given so much news coverage. On their arrival to the UK they should have been ignored. They had done damage enough to the country and it’s armed forces and their standing in the eyes of the world.

    I’m saying this as not just a British citizen, but as a British Expat. living in pro-western Morocco.

    Everyone here has seen the way our sailors conducted themselves on Iranian television, everyone has seen them eating, chatting, laughing, and playing table-tennis and chess. Everyone has seen how they abandoned their uniforms for riduculous ill-fitting suits, thanking their captors for their forgiveness, waving wildly and comparing goody-bags.

    And now, since their release, everyone here has heard their tales of mental torture and anguish.

    Anyone at home want to hear what the reaction to that was here?

    Thigh-slapping, eye-watering, hysterical laughter - that’s what it was!!!!!!!!!

    There is very little animosity here towards the Brits. It was just the farcicalness of it all that prompted the laughter.

    Nobody has been impolite enough to mention it to me, but I am sure they must be thinking what a load of wimps our servicemen are.

    Can you imagine the response to this situation in unfriendly countries?

    These service people and their senior commanders, who allowed this situation to happen in the first place, should be discredited and court-martialled. I don’t blame the 15 for surrendering, they didn’t have any water-borne or air support, the responsibility for that lies at the feet of their superiors. But the damage done by their comportment during, and now, AFTER capture, to our Country and our REAL servicemen and women will take years to repair.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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