The answeris YES, it can be determined if it is from a dead or living person, in spite of what was said on the recent RTE program …

SNIP

GRACE: What is the police theory? What we know tonight is the mom and the dad, prime suspects in baby Maddy`s death and disappearance, one or the other. Also, we have listened to reports that the body fluid found in the back of the car of that rental car is under the carpet, in the trunk, and there`s an 80 percent to 98 percent chance that it is baby Maddy`s blood. That leaves them with a lot of explaining to do.

Out to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner and forensic pathologist. Dr. Morrone, they seem to be going on a theory that baby Maddy was sedated to make her go to sleep so they could go out to dinner. OK, let`s think about that for a moment. What would be the bodily fluid 25 days later if they transported a dead body? What would be the bodily fluid?

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: There are a number of bodily fluids that could accumulate. When red blood cells compact with platelets and clotting factors, what`s extracted is something called serum. It could be old urine. It could be…

GRACE: Twenty-five days later?

MORRONE: If it`s in the body and the body has been stored, those things, along with other chemical markers, would also give them the idea of decomposition.

GRACE: What do you mean other chemical markers? Break it down, Morrone! What do you mean “other chemical markers”?

MORRONE: I`m going to use two words, and one of these is going to be really familiar to you. One of them is called spermine and one of them is called cadaverine. These are compounds that are only given off in dead bodies. You don`t get these compounds in live children or live adults…

GRACE: Oh, you mean like gas, the body starts emitting gas as it decomposes?

MORRONE: It`s still in a fluid state, but these two molecules called spermine and cadaverine, cadaverine is what`s used to train cadaver dogs. They spray cadaverine on a rag, and they let the dogs sniff it, then they go hide the rag. That`s how you train a cadaver dog.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: … a fluid that the body creates postmortem?

MORRONE: Yes, as part of the decomposition. And if the body fluid and the DNA also contain these, then there is a suspicion that this was decomposition and death, yes.

GRACE: So if the bodily fluid and what contain this?

MORRONE: You would find spermine and cadaverine in urine or other bodily fluids that might be secreted, because it`s like a wine. It matures. And it ferments. And this is what`s produced in fermentation.

Full Transcript is at this address:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0709/10/ng.01.html

Right now it’s 8:30 a.m. here

Transporting rotting meat eh! how convenient. If the McCann’s dont already know, DNA can distinguish human from animal. (yawn) Then again you would think doctors would know this. However, they made the claim it was rotting meat in relation to why the dogs barked. Maybe they forgot about DNA, in which case makes them crap Doctors AND crap criminals. Maybe they got their doctorates online from the university of fantasy in Alabama for $49.99.

I’m totally convinced that this whole caper has been an elaborate distraction all along, and the McCanns are old fashioned liars. If one of them just confessed and was honest, they would be out of jail in a few Years and all would be forgotten. Now, they have upped the ante nobody will forgive them.

Where could you possibly live without people judging you? Suicide City. Oh no, silly me. GOD judges you there according to the McCanns. There’s nowhere to hide now. Heaven or Earth.

Maria – You ought to be a journalist. You seem to have a talent for weaving seemingly unrelated ‘facts’ and coming to rosy conclusions about what it all means. I hope one day this case is solved and is swiftly followed by some kind of public enquiry. From the contradictory rubbish spewed out by the media I can’t help but think that lots of mistakes and deceptions have occurred in many parties assoiciated with this case.

Edit ..

It was also a bit daft to have two men heading the investigation, one an arguido under suspicion of covering up torture of the mother of a missing child and the other charged with beating up a suspect later found not guilty. Just daft, especially the first one.

COMMENT – So are you now suggesting that one was an arguido and the other charged with offences BEFORE they started work on the Madeleine investigation? I had thought these statuses (spelling?) were attributed some time after they commenced working on the Madeleine case? That being the case (happy to be proven wrong), all sorts of questions arise. E.g. How quickly should these officers have been removed from the case? Are these ‘opportunistic’ claims/charges by the other parties? Are any of these accusations being ‘encouraged’?

Edit….. This isn’t about prejudice, it’s about the simple fact that this particular investigation wasn’t conducted professionally. If it had been, we’d know by know whether the McCanns were guilty or whether their story and their desperate campaign to find Madeleine was genuine.

COMMENT – Part of the issue for many is the perception that the search for Madeleine has been anything but “desperate”.

For any police force to suggest that they would allow prime suspects (if they DID suspect them then) to remove a body in a hire car under their very noses, weeks after the event and rebury it somewhere else……..well, doesn’t that say it all?!

COMMENT – Perhaps the simple explanation is that they were NOT Prime Suspects at the time? (Always assuming a body or materials used to store/transport a body were ever in the Renault Scenic. There are now suggestions that other cars may in fact be the forensically interesting ones, allegedly.)

6 of the PJ to date, so I am lead to understand by media reports. Edit……
++++++++++++++++
Ah well, if it’s been in the media it MUST be true then!

Say what you like, mistakes have been made by the PJ.

Anyway, as I said yesterday - I am making no comments on what I think happened

Adia I do believe I failed you
Adia I know I let you down
Don’t you know I tried so hard
To love you in my way
It’s easy let it go…
Adia I’m empty since you left me
Trying to find a way to carry on
I search myself and everyone
To see where we went wrong
’cause there’s no one left to finger
There’s no one here to blame
There’s no one left to talk to, honey
And there ain’t no one to buy our innocence (!!!!!)
’cause we are born innocent
Believe me adia, we are still innocent
It’s easy, we all falter
Does it matter?
Adia I thought that we could make it
But I know I can’t change the way you feel
I leave you with your misery
A friend who won’t betray
I pull you from your tower
I take away your pain
And show you all the beauty you possess
If you’d only let yourself believe that
We are born innocent
Believe me adia, we are still innocent
It’s easy, we all falter, does it matter?
Believe me adia, we are still innocent
’cause we are born innocent
Adia we are still innocent
It’s easy, we all falter … but does it matter?

Words © Sarah McLachlan

DNA request in Madeleine hunt

Press Association
Wednesday October 10, 2007 4:58 AM

Tourists who stayed at the resort where Madeleine McCann went missing have been asked to provide DNA samples and fingerprints, reports say.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6984869,00.html

Also of interest are the claims other children were in the room with Madeleine. Check Google news for these. I believe I read only one link per post.

They can’t help shooting themselves in the foot! Not hard to get them to sleep if they’re all drugged. Oh what a tangled web we weave.

I hope you were being facetious when you wrote “lazy greasy Portuguese”. There’s another forum where Brit expats gather and the things they say about the Portuguese enrage me.

It is true that the Portuguese are treated badly in England. I have a friend who just returned from working and living in London, and he was shocked at the way he was treated and perceived by the people there. He’s not the only one, either.

Please tell me you weren’t serious.

OK, tomorrow I will post about what is our Final Answer

Go to Sleep Krissie! It’s past your bedtime…

And I agree with anyone who says the Police are sharper than we think. There’s more than one ace up the sleeve, I suspect, I just don’t know which color and suit. Could be something we do not at all suspect.

Kitty — I think you are right that Madeleine’s body is long gone/destroyed. I, too, concluded this when her parents, through others, asserted, “Show us the body.”

Andrew — I, too, think the police (British and Portuguese) are sharper than many realize. i think they have phone calls or emails that will damn the McCanns. Even if such evidence were kept out of the courts, it would eventually be leaked to the media. If people hear tapes of Kate McCann admitting to accidentally killing Madeleine, she may end up wishing she were in prison rather than out free, facing the wrath of the public.

The Tapas 9 have created more than enough mystery surrounding the whereabouts of their children and themselves and it is high time they stopped dithering and started answering straight questions with straight answers.

I said before that he must be very stupid or frightened, but there is a third option - maybe he has watched too many episodes of The Bill.

I think you are close to the truth. My opinion is that Madeleine’s death was accidental and resulted from an attack by her mother in response to Madeleine (in Kate’s opinion) being too demanding and jeopardising an evening out which the woman lacked the restraint and grace to forego. Despite not committing the deed personally, GMc, realised that the fall-out of such a revolting crime would ruin his career, social life and (perhaps) political aspirations and quickly donned his professional persona to launch a damage limitation exercise by disposing of his daughter’s body and concocting an abduction story to feed to police, press and public.

The disposal method was probably via the garbage units which I understand are in plentiful supply and emptied regularly, so poor little Madeleine’s body is probably now so deep in landfill that she would be undetectable by the most highly trained cadaverine dogs, hence G & K’s increasingly smug ‘bring it on’ attitude.

Gerry expected his story to be universally accepted, and is now squirming with shame and anger because the PJ is hanging on in there and, for all he knows, could have an ace card to play. According to his ‘plan’, Madeleine’s disappearance should already be fading into history as a tragic unsolved mystery, the PJ should be grovelling in shame at their ineptitude and the British media, under the guidance of Clarrie Clown, should be canonising Kate and himself for their marvellous charitable work on behalf of missing children.

Yet the eyes of the world are still on the McCanns, and it isn’t only the PJ who are not looking kindly.