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Er…… I’m dumbfounded!

My position is quite clear, I refuse to believe every utterance from the McCann’s and people who are either outrageously Pro or Ant-McCann.

How you can read some of the stuff you did into my previous post is really quite bizarre.

I do not know if the McCann twins were sedated. Neither do you. If we believe the gossip/rumour/leaks then there seems to be a strong possibility that they were.

Gerry suggested in an almost throwaway remark on camera that “it did make you wonder if they hadn’t been sedated” and in doing so implied that it was the work of the evil predator.

That to me is clearly a ‘positioning statement’ so that whatever the PJ may eventually claim about the sedation state of the twins/Madeleine, the McCann’s already have a ‘ready prepared excuse’.

What I questioned/wondered, is that if Gerry & and his mates had any suspicions, why didn’t they raise them at the time? They are all doctors for heavens sake. Surely they should be able to spot a child that was behaving in an ‘unusual’ manner’ and certainly one which had been sedated?

Now, how on earth you can conclude that that sort of line of reasoning is somehow Pro-McCann simply beggers rational explanation.

Peter O wrote:
“Some Spanish Profs built a computer model of the alleged timeline based on witness claims that are in the public domain.”

More pro-McCann rhetoric from Peter O. He never seems to tire of it. The “witness claims that are in the public domain” which were used are the Tapas9 statements. There are NO independent witnesses who can testify that they actually checked the apartment even once.

Edit…

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You are arguing with yourself now.

The whole point of the work done by the Spanish Profs is that it appears to make the abduction claims almost impossible, if you believe the alleged witness statements. Hence the McCann’s recent switch to the whole “we must have been watched by an evil predator who plpanned the whole thing with slick military precision”.

Some Spanish Profs built a computer model of the alleged timeline based on witness claims that are in the public domain. Edit…
**************************************************************************************

…but how does that fit in with the Tapas Bar staff saying that any or all of them were sitting there most of the time and didn’t go to the apartment for anything between 45 minutes to an hour and a half ? If these Spanish Profs built this timeline, which adults were there ?

++++++++++

Sorry Kiwi, don’t know, you may need to Google it if you’re interested.

It is interesting that on the recent Panorama programme the McCann’s themselves appear to concede to the ‘tight timeline’, though of course there was no mention of the eight minute thing. The McCann’s are now leaning very strongly in favour of a ‘planned abduction by an evil predator’. You’ll have to decide for yourself if that claim is believable/possible. While I have to accept that it may be possible, it just seems so unlikely given everything else in the public domain.

No, I have observed that your conclusions are exclusively pro-McScam, though somewhat more camouflaged than others.

“Your reasoning for this belief is as dumb as those who believe the “sainted ones” are completely innocent and that the entire world is conspiring against them.”

You may delight in calling people dumb, but my reasoning is based simply on a close reading of your posts. They all contain pro-McConn conclusions, despite the fact that you do not doubt them as “sainted”.

“He [Gerry] was, in my opinion, covering all the bases that may crop up in relation to allegations that he and Kate sedated the twins themselves. i.e. He is not admitting that they were sedated, because he doesn’t actually know if the PJ can prove that. If however the PJ can prove that the twins were sedated, then he’s already setup their excuse, it was the abductor(s).”

That’s exactly what I posted (as you should know) so I guess we can agree every once in a while. As I pointed out, Kate already claimed that the corpse evidence in the car had been planted by abductors (her initial reaction). As you put it, sh has “already setup their excuse, it was the abductor(s).”

“It is, again in my opinion, a fairly dumb thing for him to ‘suggest’. ”

Indeed it is, but not for the reason you give. The reason you give is yet another PRO-McCann twist. Congratulations, Peter O. You are very good at camouflaging your Team McCann position! Your reason:

“You would think that given the number of doctors in PDL on May 3rd/4th that they’d have been able to spot if two young children had been ‘sedated’? Assuming of course there really was anything unusual about the children’s state.”

There WAS something unusual, which was remarked on by many on-lookers — the children slept and slept and slept, all through the most noisy chaotic cacophony and hysteria imaginable. What other indicators did you have in mind, with your claim that doctors should have been able to notice? Give an example, if you can.

So I do think people WERE “able to spot if two young children had been ‘sedated’”. Your claim that nothing unusual was noted is… ludicrous pro-McCann rubbish. Good job, Peter O. You deserve a raise.

Peter O wrote:
“Some Spanish Profs built a computer model of the alleged timeline based on witness claims that are in the public domain.”

More pro-McCann rhetoric from Peter O. He never seems to tire of it. The “witness claims that are in the public domain” which were used are the Tapas9 statements. There are NO independent witnesses who can testify that they actually checked the apartment even once.

“As I recollect, their general conclusion was that because of all the comings and goings there was never a period of more then eight minutes on May 3rd when there wasn’t an adult in or near the McCann’s department.”

That’s some recollection, Peter O. BTW you forgot to add “alleged” — based on ” all the ALLEGED comings and goings” — ie. IF the Tapas members were not lying about how frequently they checked on the children, then “there was never a period of more then eight minutes …”

The big problem with this IF is that the Tapas9 statements are filled with contradictions, and so cannot possibly be true. So it makes no sense to use ALL Tapas member claims as a basis for analysis.

Yet this so-called 8 minute window was then accepted by Metodo3 and used in its Paedophile Abduction Theory.

Kiwi wrote:

“…but how does that fit in with the Tapas Bar staff saying that any or all of them were sitting there most of the time and didn’t go to the apartment for anything between 45 minutes to an hour and a half ?”

Exactly the point. There are NO independent witnesses to confirm the Tapas9 claims (which Peter O calls “wintess claims in the public domain”).There ARE independent witnesses who contradict these claims.

Therefore if ALL witness claims are included in the analysis, there is no result, because of contradiction. There is contradiction even within the Tapas9 statements, and there is complete contradiction with Tapas staff statements. If you give weight to the Tapas Bar Staff testimony, then the window of time suddenly expands from 8 minutes to an hour and a half.

November 20th , 2007 at 7.20 Some Spanish Profs built a computer model of the alleged timeline based on witness claims that are in the public domain. As I recollect, their general conclusion was that because of all the comings and goings there was never a period of more then eight minutes on May 3rd when there wasn’t an adult in or near the McCann’s department.
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…but how does that fit in with the Tapas Bar staff saying that any or all of them were sitting there most of the time and didn’t go to the apartment for anything between 45 minutes to an hour and a half ? If these Spanish Profs built this timeline, which adults were there ?

The nine divisions are:-

Insurance, financial, legal, franchises, fraud, mutual insurance, patent and trademark falsification, information protection and due diligence and disloyal competition.

In short, absolutely nothing to do with searching for a missing person.

Why choose Metodo 3?

http://www.metodo3.es/eng/entrada.html (and click divisons)

Is it not possible that this organisation has been employed to muddy the waters and influence the British press and opinion writers?

Surely amongst all the people writing about this on the web and these pages, someone could look into the validity of this organisation with a supposed 100% (there’s that figure again) success rate in returning missing children. Someone, somewhere, please, investigate the investigators!

Edit…. Also whenever there is talk of a predator, they keep coming up with the fact that there could only have been an eight minute window of opportunity !! ….where did they get that from when it has been proven that the kids were left alone for hours on end ?? …did I miss an episode or something ??

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Some Spanish Profs built a computer model of the alleged timeline based on witness claims that are in the public domain. As I recollect, their general conclusion was that because of all the comings and goings there was never a period of more then eight minutes on May 3rd when there wasn’t an adult in or near the McCann’s department.

You have patently decided that since I don’t agree with every utterance you issue that I’m a “Pro-McCann”.

Your reasoning for this belief is as dumb as those who believe the “sainted ones” are completely innocent and that the entire world is conspiring against them.

I was reporting what Gerry said and attempting to get across the point that he implied the twins may have been sedated by the alleged abductor(s) but that he did it in a fairly off hand/matter of fact way.

He was, in my opinion, covering all the bases that may crop up in relation to allegations that he and Kate sedated the twins themselves. i.e. He is not admitting that they were sedated, because he doesn’t actually know if the PJ can prove that. If however the PJ can prove that the twins were sedated, then he’s already setup their excuse, it was the abductor(s).

It is, again in my opinion, a fairly dumb thing for him to ‘suggest’. You would think that given the number of doctors in PDL on May 3rd/4th that they’d have been able to spot if two young children had been ‘sedated’? Assuming of course there really was anything unusual about the children’s state.

I’d suggest following your own advice.

“I wasn’t ‘throwing the comment away’, Gerry was.”

Oh, stop your quibbling. YOU were claiming that the remark is not significant:
“unimportant, of relatively little importance or seriousness
a light throwaway remark”
(encarta dictionary)

In that sense, yes indeed you were also throwing it away.

“There are a number of potentially factual inaccuracies in your closing paragraph, or at least allegations for which there is currently no evidence in the public domain.”

Potentially factual — that’s a good one. Anyway, I’m not surprised there is “no evidence in the public domain” for what were quite obviously mere sarcastic speculations as to what the McCanns might try next. I wrote:

“Perhaps the McCanns in response to such evidence will claim that the PREDATOR sedated the children…”

Unlike you , I regard Gerry’s remark as SIGNIFICANT, and I think it might mean that there is evidence of sedation. That is also speculation.

Your claim that it was a “throwaway remark” is also speculation — pro-McCon speculation.

You need to listen to yourself again, Peter O:
“You seriously need to get over yourself.”

“Justine McGuiness confirmed they were texting ‘updates’ out to people on the outside.[while being interrogated]”

How fascinating? Were they receiving replies to these “updates”?

“Yes, Gerry remarked the twins had slept through the ‘commotion’ and I *think* he said up until they were moved to the other apartment. He then chucked in an almost throwaway comment about wondering if they hadn’t been slipped something.”

What makes you want to throw the comment away, Peter O? And “something”… didn’t he use the word sedative?

This could be a hint that the evidence clearly shows sedation. Perhpas the McCanns in response to such evidence will claim that the PREDATOR sedated the children, killed Madeleine while trying to ABDUCT her, and then planted the body in the boot of their car, in Murats basement, and a few other places, before finally getting rid of it. In this way the clever PAEDOPHILE hoped to convince people that the McCanns killed the girl and hid the body. But this ABDUCTOR cannot fool people like Peter O… lol..

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You seriously need to get over yourself.

I wasn’t ‘throwing the comment away’, Gerry was.

There are a number of potentially factual inaccuracies in your closing paragraph, or at least allegations for which there is currently no evidence in the public domain.

“I think Gerry just isnt very good at communicating (ridiculous over use of ‘incredbly’ as a ’sentence packer’ for example).”

Yes, but he just flat out refused to answer the question.

“He did know Murat - definately from the holiday week - perhaps from before (I always suspected that the holiday location was from a word of mouth connection with Murat and O’Brien, both have Exeter connections. This doesnt mean any conspiracy…”

To me it means quite obviously that he was reluctant to tell the public that he knew Murat. That shows he is hiding something about the relationship. No need to bring in the word “conspiracy” — it is Gerry’s own refusal to come clean about his past history with Murat. Why has he refused to do this?

“- just that Gerry didnt know how to answer - he did know Murat, thought he shouldnt say either way - fumbled the ball as usual. ”

I cannot remember his wording, but he did not appear to be fumbling. He was very forthwith and adamant, saying that he could not answer the question. His implication seemed to be that he was not allowed to talk about it. However, I do not think that information falls into the “gag” category.

Shouldn’t you have put a “sh” in front of the “it” at the end of your headline. ?

“Justine McGuiness confirmed they were texting ‘updates’ out to people on the outside.[while being interrogated]”

How fascinating? Were they receiving replies to these “updates”?

“Yes, Gerry remarked the twins had slept through the ‘commotion’ and I *think* he said up until they were moved to the other apartment. He then chucked in an almost throwaway comment about wondering if they hadn’t been slipped something.”

What makes you want to throw the comment away, Peter O? And “something”… didn’t he use the word sedative?

This could be a hint that the evidence clearly shows sedation. Perhpas the McCanns in response to such evidence will claim that the PREDATOR sedated the children, killed Madeleine while trying to ABDUCT her, and then planted the body in the boot of their car, in Murats basement, and a few other places, before finally getting rid of it. In this way the clever PAEDOPHILE hoped to convince people that the McCanns killed the girl and hid the body. But this ABDUCTOR cannot fool people like Peter O… lol..

November 20th, 2007 at 7:46 am

Absolutely agree !!
I have never understood the mind-set of people who can casually go jogging and playing tennis within days of their child disappearing, and saying that they “sleep very well” although apparently they didn’t for a couple or so nights immediately after Maddie disappeared - shame !!. I would be half-mad with fear for the child, sleep, playing tennis and jogging would be the last things on my agenda !! Don’t they understand ????!!!! I would be out there day after day, night after night not sitting at my computer as if that is going to somehow bring her back.

I have a very fertile imagination and I do not want to go through some of the scenarios that has thrown up but these two….!! well….words nearly fail me !!